- Dining Out: Exploring Mediterranean Flavors with Kitty Dare’s Culinary Masters: Jaamy Zarnegar & Chef Giuseppe Esposito
Join hosts Nick Constantino and Trip Jobe as they dive into the vibrant world of food and wine with Jaamy Zarnegar, founder of Kitty Dare, and Chef Giuseppe Esposito. Discover the rich diversity of Mediterranean Flavors and the unique dining experience offered at Kitty Dare.
Key Takeaways
- The diversity within Mediterranean cuisine, from Greek to Moroccan influences.
- Jaamy Zarnegar’s extensive experience in the restaurant industry.
- Chef Giuseppe Esposito’s culinary journey and the regional diversity of Italian cuisine.
- The importance of fresh herbs and regional ingredients in Italian cooking.
- The unique dining experience and community focus of Kitty Dare.
- Marketing strategies for restaurants and the importance of regular customers.
Kitty Dare, Mediterranean cuisine, restaurant industry, Jaamy Zarnegar, Chef Giuseppe Esposito, Italian cuisine, fresh herbs, regional ingredients, community restaurant, marketing strategies, regular customers.
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Summary
In this episode of “Marketing MadMen,” hosts Nick Constantine and Trip Jobe explore the culinary delights of Kitty Dare with founder Jaamy Zarnegar and Chef Giuseppe Esposito. They discuss the rich diversity of Mediterranean cuisine, Jaamy’s extensive experience in the restaurant industry, and Giuseppe’s culinary journey. The conversation highlights the importance of fresh herbs and regional ingredients in Italian cooking and the unique dining experience offered at Kitty Dare. The episode also delves into the restaurant’s community focus and effective marketing strategies.
Happy Saturday. Welcome to the marketing Mad Men trip show by Nick Constantine. Here live from the battery and ooh, today smells wonderful.
It smells wonderful. It tastes wonderful. Food and wine, favorite things on Earth. I’m very excited to have this conversation, and I was lucky enough to eat at at Kitty Dare. The restaurant we’re talking about, so I will immediately consider myself an expert because I ate there. Instant because that’s just how.
I am you just consider yourself an expert. Whatever. We’re. Talking about I have to, isn’t it?
The game. Isn’t that the game is supposed to sound like we’re experts. Sound like we know we’re. Think about. So without further ado, we have Jamie Zarnegar, who founded it and has a lot of experience in the restaurant industry. And we have chef Giuseppe Esposito, who is the chef of the restaurant. So we’re going to get to these guys. But let me just say it, it is a wonderful restaurant. It feels a lot like the restaurants I grew up in going to Astoria. It feels very authentic and neighborhoody and chef is really pushing the boundaries on how he’s mixing Mediterranean ingredients.
I was going to say we have to say because when you say Kitty dare, it doesn’t necessarily come to mind. What type of you know what type of cuisine we’re talking about. But it is Mediterranean, so.
We’ll get to. That.
We’ll, we’ll we’ll get.
We’ll get to that and I think it’s funny and I think, Karen. For PR extraordinary and I were having the conversation. People botch Mediterranean so bad they go it’s Mediterranean like do you know how many countries sit on the Mediterranean? Do you know how different the cuisine is? And people think they’re similar. They are to some extent, but Greek to Moroccan could not be more different in the way they go about food. The Greeks are very it’s oregano, lemon garlic. Very simple. Moroccans got the spice palette and these are the crazy spices. So when we say Mediterranean, please don’t think you know what we’re talking about because there’s lots of that going to Mediterranean so. With that being said, Jimmy, how you doing?
My man, I’m doing great. It’s good. To be here. Thanks.
Glad to have you.
Yeah.
Welcome. Why don’t you frame? You’ve been in the restaurant industry a while. Talk about everything that you’ve got on your culinary journey to lead you. To this point.
So it all started back in 1980 where I started as a dishwasher at UNC Greensboro’s cafeterias, a wonderful experience. Little from there. Oh, yeah. I love you. No, Carolina in Greensboro. And then I moved. There was a little restaurant on camp.
Well, I might have seen you during the summer. I lived in Greensboro. I grew up, went to camps there. So yeah, who knows?
I became a dishwasher. There was a big promotion from the cafeteria onto a Buster waiter, then managed the dining room and then was able to start working off campus and eventually ended up at a great restaurant called Southern Lights in Greensboro, NC, which I feel like in the early 80s, was way ahead of its.
Yes, good.
Time.
And it was there that I really. I fell in love with food and wine because I worked on a great general manager and security who taught me a lot about wine and and also worked in the kitchen with John drinks the. Owner and chef Beth Krishnan, those three people kind of frame their future for me in the restaurant business and I was in Greensboro until 93 with the Southern Lights and then moved to Athens, GA where I became co-owner General manager of the very famous last resort grill. And that was it from 93 until really the end of December.
Thanks.
Wonderful.
Yes. There are 20. When I moved to Atlanta, Resort was changing ownership somewhat and I moved on and was looking for a chef and it just happened. And I talked to this beautiful young lady that I worked with in Athens who was in Australia, who had met this great Italian guy and they were going to move here because her mother lived in Roswell. And. They were going to either move here. Or go to. Italy. So they stayed here. We talked right before? Yeah.
Almost the same place. Atlanta and Italy, that’s like, wow.
Not if it’s easy decision as well.
So we talked, you know, about opening a restaurant. The pandemic happened and a couple of years into it I was like, OK, at some point this will end. So I recontacted Megan, who was now married to Giuseppe and Megan and I worked at last resort and we sat down. And the partnership started in opening a Kitty there, which opened in November of 21. The day after Thanksgiving, kind of tail end of the pandemic. And so I, you know, learned a lot along the way in many restaurants and was able to manage their last resort in the kitchen as the head chef.
Yeah, for sure.
On two different occasions where we couldn’t find the right leadership, primarily worked in the front of the House, but it it’s been a really wonderful. Some 44 year journey.
Yeah, it’s it’s amazing. And I think I have so many questions, but I want to go over to Chef today because he says a different such a good job setting him up. Chef, how about give your your background and what brought you here and then I’ll ask a ton of questions, but mostly about Athens, because I’m just so curious. But you’ll tell us.
Yeah.
What brought you here?
Brought me here. Like mostly yeah. My wife, Megan’s like, been traveling.
And then on your culinary.
That’s a good that’s a good answer, so.
Journey. Yeah. Yeah, that was correct answer. Wife did it.
So basically yeah, I was working all over. In Australia, OK. So starting from the beginning, I started I did a culinary school in Italy for five years in corujo, so my background starts from I’m born and raised in Raju media, which is like the in the media region, is like the beginning of the northern Italy, Canada right above Tuscany. But my whole family is from the South.
Annapolis. So I always had these, like culinary kind of like the cotton between North and South always.
Yeah.
Like I, I’ve been lucky enough to see both of the wards like.
Yeah, and. And we’re gonna elaborate on that, because unfortunately, most Americans think that Italian food is like pizza place food, and they don’t understand the difference in the cuisines and the. Yeah. And the mountains and the regions. And we’ll get to that. But OK. So so your your, your families from the South, you’re raised just north of Tuscany. You went to culinary school.
The about the candy kitchen, right? Easily, right?
There. Yeah. So bring us up. So you’re working in restaurants around Italy?
And then Australia, yes, I’ll be working. I did these culinary school for five years. So in Italy like is a high school, the culinary school. So for those five years from where you are 14 till 19.
Of.
Of course it is. Of course, yeah. You’re just go to Chef school. You’re fine.
And yeah, started working in restaurant already as a team as a teenager from around like 1415 and then the school they will send you like around Italy towards like on the Gardens, Lake, Hobos Lake on those like restaurants around there like touristic place like that and after that.
Yeah.
I worked around Italy, I did a a cooking. A culinary exchange with these cooking school in Albacete, Spain close to Valencia.
Cool.
I worked a little while in Italy, went to London, had some friends there. I worked there for a a little more than a year, came back to Italy after being in London, went back to my like small town in Italy, 5000 people. I was like what I’m doing here, getting bored, restarted traveling, went to Australia for a couple of years. Also there. Like what the.
Yeah.
Shape all over the place.
Yes.
And then I met Megan, my my girlfriend at the time, my wife. Now we came back here, worked in a couple of places, met Jamie and yeah. And since then, you know, we start talking about, like, opening something and food and this and that. And that’s how basically we saw.
Yeah, so, so sorry. Your wife, what was your other biggest influence during that kind of growth period development period? For you.
What do you mean?
The biggest influence on you as far as the culinary side of things, from your from your early days, who’s who or what region may have been the biggest from where you are today.
I don’t know. Probably other other women in my. Family. Kind of don’t like to cook. I grow up with, like, a bunch of aunties and my mom cooking and all of that. So I said it’s a very formal.
Who is the best? Who is now the more important question? Yeah. Who is the best cook in your family? Cause this is much harder. One for that kind to answer, cause someone’s gonna be listening. Gonna choke him if he says the wrong answer. So which auntie or which female in the family was the best?
My mom’s.
Of course, we knew that was coming alright. So again, I have so many freaking questions. So now we’re have fun. Just jump across. I’m gonna ask random questions. So Athens, were you a college football?
Fan. Yes, but remember, I went to a school without a football team at UNC Greensboro.
When you got to Athens, you may not.
Have been but a very quickly I became a die hard Georgia football fan.
OK, so very important. So you saw the regimes, you saw the Mark Rick transition.
I’ve seen studies with Goff, then Don and Margaret, and then of course, Kirby Smart arrives and everything changes, in my opinion.
Everything, everything. So we this station. Our sister station 6. Event has been the official talk station of Georgia. We have designations. I’ve met Mark Rick many times. We’re around them all time. It’s unbelievable. The program has done, but just talk a little bit about Athens was like as that college town and how much you’ve seen Athens change. Cause I’ve recall 1520 years ago like anyone was going to Georgia. Now you need a 1500 on your SAT is and like a blessing from God. Yourself to get into the school. So talk about how much Athens changed and how less resort changed with it as a as a town.
And the most important thing about changing the restaurant as Athens became a bigger, more sophisticated city from what was a beautiful plain college town in my. Opinion was that you have to keep up with the times and one of the things that Melissa Clegg, the main owner and I junior partner, were very aware of how we changed the menu to keep up and modernize their menu. Of course, there was staples we would never take off the menu, but then there were items that change every two or three years and Athens grew. We grew with it. In came, you know, other restaurants. We actually opened five and 10 with Hugh Atchison. Who then, after we had got out of it? Wonder James Beard there and you know, was on Top Chef. And so that is really Athens has changed quite a bit. I was just recently there and there’s a new hotel there. Beautiful restaurant there rode by there which is run by the Indigo Rd. group from Charleston and.
Yeah.
So it’s really. Changing in a way is changing for the better because there’s so much great restaurants and diversity now in a way it’s lost to me. It’s charm of that small but town, but it’s got it was gonna happen, you know.
Yeah, fine. Sure.
But that had to be different than your Greensboro experience. Well, Greensboro is a bigger city than at. You know, and I love. I grew up there. Part of the reason I left after college is I can see what Greensboro is going to be for the next 25 years. It’s a wonderful place, but it doesn’t change very much.
It’s changing the way that you in CG still doesn’t have a football program. It’s still primarily a liberal arts. Cool. Is that incredible university, but the city has grown is a new Aquatic Center that the the US trials there few years ago. The new baseball stadium downtown, have resurrected the downtown. We never went downtown at that. Time so, but it’s completely different now. Living in a college town where the whole world is about Georgia in a way. And we see actually so many visitors. And of course, we had the pleasure of having two restaurants during the Olympics there and the finals of what we call football. Everybody else called soccer here, where it was in Athens. Volleyball and rhythmic gymnastics. So. It’s been great. Both are very different though. You’re so. Correct. Yeah. No and.
I’m sure that you know we’ll get into it in the next segment, but that I’m sure shape some of the things you probably felt you can do or couldn’t do because again, I remember the the restaurant culinary scene in Greensboro during the 80s when you were there and there was so much of it that was just very much the same. And then you know, you get into Athens where you able to start doing things. Differently. So you know, when we come back from the break, we’ll we’ll dive. In a little. Bit more we want to learn a. Little more about. The the just the you know where Kitty deer came from, and then we’ll dive into the food and the culinary experience. So you’ve been listening to the marketing madman on extra 106.3 and we’ll be right.
So many more questions, so many more questions. Back, welcome back to the marketing madman on extra. 106.3. Nick Constantino and Trip Jobe here. And we’re going to continue our conversation with John May and Chef Giuseppe, so. Jeff, you’ve been to a lot of places in the world, OK, so growing up in Italy, which culinary wine is just, it’s like speaking, it’s part of the language. It’s part of the love languages of families. You know, I remember growing up, my grandfather would literally sit with, like, the wine we have in front of us at 7 years old and just make me drink wine. And you’re not drinking to get drunk, you’re drinking because that is. Part of the family experience and he’s cooking all day and blah, blah blah. So talk a little bit about Italy, talk about Australia and then talk about kind of coming to the US and what surprised you most, because I think that will set us up for the eclectic mix of cuisines that that you guys have brought into Kinney there.
Yeah. So there are definitely like 3 very different places like Italy, Australia, US. So I think the main difference probably like, as you said, is like in Italy. Food and wine. They’re really into the culture. Uh, yeah, you can drink like I remember being like 1213. I have a little bit of like wine with the with water. But the food? Yeah, in Italy. Like, there’s this idea that, like, Italian food, it’s like uniform. Just pizza and pasta and all of that. Why, like you if you are in any place in Italy, it’s enough to move like 10 miles and like the kitchen completely, the food completely chains all the typical products from the area. You know, we are. In Italy, and like most of Europe, they’re they are all these denomination like DOC DOCG, EG TGP. They’re all these denomination that tells you also with the wine or just with the food that tells like that this product is being grown. This specific area with.
Yep.
Is specific methods, yeah. And some of it is famous now, right? We know that balsamic vinegar has gotta be from sorry. From Modena. It’s gotta be there certain of it. But that is everywhere. Everything is regionalized. Every kind of ran like Parmesan cheese and reggiano. All these things are regional parts that have just made their way into the lexicon, which is very different than this.
Yeah.
Country and how we do things. OK, So what about one of the things I find the spice pallets are so different, right? So everything is fresh herbs and parmesan. It’s not salt, salt, salt, salt, salt, salt. American food is just loaded with salt. Italy, the herbs and the the, the, the. The different flavors take more of the is that is that is some. You noticed.
Yeah, definitely. It’s, you know, like Italy for being such a small country has a lot of different like expressions like in the, you know, the whole environment. You know, there’s like, there’s a mountain, there’s a desert, there’s a lot of, like, so this reflects on the food as well. Like there are many places. Like many regions like you know, Liguria or close to the Appennini region, you know you can live, for example, on the on the mountain or like if you are in the market or legal, you can live in the mountain like drive 10 minutes and be on the sea. And those are very like interesting regions for me, especially because you know you can you can eat boar and and have seafood, you know. So it’s like it’s very, very diverse to be like such as.
Sure, sure. Yeah, wild boar is such and type rabbit and wild boar are the two things I always think about that I think I miss here. They’re delicious. And you just you don’t find here that.
Often what about Australia, Australia. So Australia like? Similarly, it’s similar to the US like I would say like to be like a young country. UM, they have like. Their. Their cuisine, I think, is mostly like a sort of like European mixed with a lot of like Asian fusion. I think that surprised me. I really fell in love with Asian food with especially like Thai food, Vietnamese food, Chinese, Japanese like.
Yeah.
Umm. It’s really good. It’s really good that I work in a couple of Asian food or restaurant and really fell in love with that. I work with really great chefs from from all the parts of Asia, and you guys are great price.
Yeah.
We’re just starting. We’re just starting to crack that also because Thai food, you think Thai food, but there’s 8 regions of Thailand and different and then there’s street food and you’re so we’re just starting to get to that point, at least here where we’re starting to wrap the layers back of those countries too. Cause like Italy, Thailand’s a big freaking country with a lot of different people with a lot of different religious and cultural influences. So I think that’s the next phase of cuisine. Now we’re starting to unravel.
I know, I know, yes.
- That one I think Australia too, just from a. Size, perspective. There’s a lot of difference. So it’s you don’t have that. I mean there’s cross pollination to be wrong, but there is very big differences in space and everything else between Melbourne and Sydney and Tasmania and some of the other areas. So that probably leads to some of the different influences I would think around Australia.
Boomerangs and Kangaroos.
Yes. Oh yeah, definitely, definitely. Also, you know, sure is famous for their, like lamb. Like for for their black angles. Like, there’s there’s a lot of BBQ. Yeah, a lot of. Yeah. Like, yeah, it’s a. It’s a big good black mix. I like my time there. I also like having fun and being like a backpacker and traveling, going hostels and living here like six months work year, three months and then go for a road trip, do something else. So these are very new country, yes.
Yeah.
Yeah. And like you said, it’s a very new country, so there’s still so much part of it that’s just completely untouched. So real quick, what about what surprised you most about American cuisine? In that.
Here. Oh, definitely the variety. It’s like there’s so much you can eat, like Ethiopian one day. Really good. And then you can go eat like Japanese and then you can go eat like an Argentinian steakhouse.
Within like three blocks of each other? Yeah. Buford Highway is a great example of that. I would say it’s amazing. So alright, Johnny. So we’re gonna go back to you now. So one of the most important things about Kitty dare and cuisine in general is the wine. And you have built your, your heritage and pedigree. Is wine being a big?
Ohh wow, I love. The place.
Of it. So because it wouldn’t be a good episode of food if we didn’t have some wine in front of us. We have some so talk a little bit about the wine we have in front of us and then talk a little bit about your experiences with wine and why it became. So important to what you did with Kitty there and then hopefully in future restaurants.
So what we’re what we are tasting is domain teraz. This is from Beaker Valley in Lebanon and it has Viognier and Chardonnay, which most people would know, but it also have obaida, which is their native great to Lebanon and also Muscat of Alexandria, again another local. Way Lebanon has two really famous grapes that are just native to Lebanon and there’s some. Over 50 wineries in Lebanon right now, all in Bekaa Valley area, perhaps the most famous, is the Chateau Musar, the Mentiras one of my favorites, really well priced. And both the red and the white drink beautifully, and we have both on the wine list actually there. So my loved one really started, believe it or not, when I was pretty young. In Iran and my parents used to drink wine with the meals and previous through 1979 takeover and the changing of the. Government alcohol was legal in Iran and my dad did his MD in Mumbai and Pediatrics in London, so we always had alcohol in the House and kind of like what Giuseppe was saying that we always were allowed to have a little bit of wine to taste and little bit of Scotch which we hated. So. I had a passion with mine from a young age and when I got 2 Southern lights in Greensboro, learned a lot from the GM. There and then when I got to last resort, it allowed me to expand the wine list in 93 a year after it opened, we only had 10 wines on the list and we ended up at some 150 wines. By the time I was done with the wine program.
Well, do you think that was the demand of their or the fact that you were experimenting and people were getting more excited? Do you think that it was you were doing that because the market demanded it or you were just pushing the envelope and once?
You started getting people just wanted more and more. I think it was a combination of both saying the the the man had started so many people that live in Athens travel internationally and. The bigger cities. And also the fact that I felt like if we offered a really big by the glass wine program that would allow people to try different things or they normally wouldn’t. And if the price was good and fair, then that would let them venture out. And then I translated that when I got to Kitty, they’re obviously in design and wine. Program that’s extremely difficult to manage. Because there are 250 wines on the list, but everything we have is temperature controlled, so even the wines that are sitting out before they’re served will go into either the white wine coolers or the red wine coolers. There’s a reserved red wine cooler, and I think it’s very important that restaurants concentrate on spending a little bit of money on just an. Average wine cooler for some of the high end wines. Yeah, I’m glassware also very. Important. Yeah. And so.
Imagine. Half tasting this. One of the things Lebanese food and I love Lebanese food. It’s a lot, a lot of spice. There’s a lot going on. There’s a lot of different. Things and a lot of times when you drink like Sauvignon blonde for example, it’s so fruit forward that you’re not going to taste a lot of the things. This wine is subtle. It’s got some minerality to it that I think would go well with Lebanese food. Is that on purpose? Is that you think something that is just a happy coincidence? You picked it for a reason, but is this something you have to pick with some of the more intense dishes on the menu?
Exactly right. So the 34 countries that hit the Mediterranean, yeah. And they all have different cuisines, but our menu in particular. You know, I think some of the white wines we have really suit our menu and I actually think white wine is so much easier to pair with food than red wine is. And we were really diverse large white wine program as well as red. But this this is the typical wine that’s perfect with our menu.
Yeah, and that’s stood out to me immediately. Yeah, I was.
Is there is that is it? Is that kind of the the strategy to be able to make it easier to pair the the reason you have such a breadth of wine? Or is it more just for general selection and maybe the you know the perception that you’ve got a large body to choose from?
I think it’s to give the customer the clientele an opportunity to try things they would not see in many other restaurants. And I think our pricing strategy really allows people to try something from, for example, we have a read from Armenia on our list, which is a fantastic bottle of wine. And I have to go back continuously to the pricing strategy and that allows people to then say, you know, if we’re going to drink a Barolo, this is the restaurant we want to drink it at. Yeah, at a restaurant. And we like glass where right temperature, very fair pricing. And so on and so forth. So the number of wines is because I would love for people to try as many different countries from Mediterranean.
And I you feel and I don’t want to say you’re doing a service, but there are a lot of people who just stick to the same regions. They’ll put a Spanish or French and Italian and be done with it. Do you feel that you’re giving due to countries who have worked hard into something and just haven’t gotten the fair share of? Mention I know for example we have a wine club and I get a Georgian wine from the country Georgia and it is one of my favorite wines all the time. Now I don’t know if I’m gonna go try to cross the world to go to Georgia, to go to their wine region, but I know that I completely changed my perception immediately just by trying that wine. So do you. Is it something that you find rewarding that you enjoy opening up people’s? Pallets and stuff like that. Is something you find rewarding.
Absolutely. I think Cabernet and Chardonnay are wonderful, but there are so many different varietals out there from so many different countries, and we’ve just scratched the surface. I mean eastern. There are. There are so many countries, Republic of Georgia, as you were talking about, is now known to have the oldest artifacts of wine in the world used to be Iran, the Old Persian Empire. But now the the latest was found in Georgia. So Eastern Europe is making tremendous wine all over the Mediterranean.
Yeah.
All over the world, so many countries make wine that people just don’t know, and there are great varietals that no one has heard of before. In particular, for example in Corsica. The riders are very difficult to pronounce, but the wines are wonderful, same as Sardinia. If you ask someone in Corsica where they’re from, they don’t say France, they’ll say I’m Corsican. Sardinians don’t say we’re part of Italy. They say we’re Sardinians, so you know, and of course, Sicily now. And Italy has become such a hot hot region for wine. But.
Yeah.
Foreskin.
My goal was to just give incredible variety and that people venture.
Out I I love it and I think I want to get to how you market that because this is a a hell of a story. It’s unique. You’re doing so much for so many people. We got to talk out of market before we get to that though. Let’s go back to Chef. Let’s talk about the the dishes. So when I ate one of the things and please punch me in the face if I’m wrong. But I had the eggplant dish. And to me, as growing up Greek and Italian to me it tasted like a. It tasted like a nice mix of bubble Duncan eggplant parm. It had the the richness and it was cooked down. But it was had the sauce from the eggplant parm. So I tasted. Those two dishes and then a little of a yogurt sauce on top. I tasted those two dishes, talk about how you approach the menu and how you combine these Mediterranean cuisines into these dishes, cause I think it’s pretty unique.
Yeah, basically what I did, it’s just been just taking the best like expressions of every Mediterranean region or at least the one that we like the best and just brand new all together. Just do a real like fusion of it. Like if you see the menu, you see you see like a dish like that. Tunisia plant the one you had and not cooked out like a fried eggplant with our resource. So we’re. And how was that kind of reminds maybe something like an eggplant parm, but with like little more spices or just tomatoes? There are a lot of, like, bell pepper, Fresno chilies, like coriander, cumin.
Yeah. And that’s right. That’s the which takes typically colder, but it has a lot more going on. Gram parm does.
So what we yeah basically that’s that’s what we did. Just take like the best expressions and just play it together like some dish. I don’t know. We got this crispy rice dish there is like basically kind of like the constructed pie with a little bit of like a Persian crispy saffron rice. Love it. Or like our gnocchi dish gnocchi, for example, is like very Italian dish, but put turmeric in the dough with some black garlic and mint tablet. A lamble on top. Yeah. Inside of like a full on on top.
That was that. That was wonderful. And it hit me because most people are afraid to mix the density of the Naoki with the richness of it. But it came together and you had a little acid in there. Really to break. It up a little bit.
Yeah, with some charred tomatoes in. Yeah.
Of a little less it was, it was, it was. It was wonderful. How often are you doing specials? Are you changing the menu seasonally? What is your what are the next couple of months look like?
Area. So we usually change the menu once a season. OK. So I would say like three to four times a year. Yep. The main menu then run special every time then. But I think that we really like to do, I’m sure, Jimmy, we’ll talk about it. We do these wine dinners. Yeah. So basically, Jimmy is takes. Some appointments with all the sales Rep that he knows. Yeah, the wine reps and basically they they set us up with like 678 wine to taste. Sure. So we have a fun like Tori. They sold the wine and then I come up with a with a menu with paired with every.
Cool.
Each glass of wine.
So on the fly, on the fly, you drink something.
And then you put your. Yeah. We discuss together, you know, obviously John, you have some more with the notes. You know when you know you with the notes that he feels in the one how it tastes what’s like and yeah and I come up with a menu paired to each one glass and.
Cool.
And therefore like. Usually it’s once a month we’ve been doing like once, twice a month. We do these wine dinner, which is a set menu with 5-6 courses with 5-6 different kind of wine and yeah, so that’s inside of maybe running special every time you have that night that you have a whole completely different menu there and so.
Yeah. And the demand for that is insane. People want those experience. That’s the experience. That’s. That’s the experience.
Oh yeah.
Well, that was the. That’s what I was going to say. It’s not just going out to dinner. You’re going out to an event you’re at. You’re really happy.
And you.
No, but I, but I like that you’re trying to be multiple things to multiple people because not everybody wants to go out and spend 3 hours drinking, say, eating 6 courses and spending $250. Like you can go and you have that neighborhood feel where it’s like a little Bistro where you can go with your kids popping out. It’s kid friendly. So most times you said kid friendly and seven course tasting menus. Those things don’t go together. If there were kids there, it’s got. It’s a good mix. So.
And then.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, it’s a good sign.
Let’s get to the market. Part. So for me, the biggest part of a restaurant and what people usually fail out, Karen, cover your ears. They’re so worried about the initial loss and there’s about the initial launch and the release and the grand opening that they forget. Regulars are the only thing that matters in the restaurant industry. If you don’t have regulars coming in every day, the restaurants never succeed. And again, one of the things growing up I grew up in Queens in New York and. Greens is as much of a restaurant town and it’s all regulars. There are Greek restaurants that have been there for 40 years and they will not change one single thing. If you say I want to cook the way like you will not have it cooked a certain, they just do it the exact same way. But it felt like it was built to be part of the. Community and when you’re there and it, it’s enough for the people around there. You want to serve them first. You want people to come in from all over the place, of course. But I felt like you were at least serving your community first. Did you think about that when you went into it? And is that part of your marketing message?
Always so when you open a neighborhood, you need to be a neighborhood restaurant, and by that I mean, for example, we have the best high chairs that I’ve seen in any restaurant.
I swear to God I was like, Oh my God, I never in my life thought I should bring my kid somewhere. I’m like, get him the hell away from me. But in this instance, I like I should have my kids.
And we have a kids menu named after Stella Giuseppe’s daughter and it’s it’s very small, but that’s exactly what they want, you know, Mac and cheese, pasta with butter. We have sometimes, like, we have the Bolognese sauce. You have the pasta with the Bolognese sauce. Very big grilled cheese.
And that’s not easy. That’s break. That’s breaking up the kitchens day to make a kids menu so people don’t understand. It’s it’s not just as easy as making. Spaghetti like you gotta completely set. Decide assets of the kitchen to.
Do that. It helps if your chef has a daughter who’s three years old. I.
Would say my son’s three. There you go. And Luca, I got Luca. You gotta.
And and I think that you know. Young couples, I think. Yeah, it’s it’s very unfair for them to have to get a babysitter to go and have dinner. We want to be a restaurant where I feel comfortable going once or twice a week. Bring your children go to brunch. There know that we have high chairs. Know that no one at my restaurant at a single server is going to roll their eyes when they see three kids on high chairs. That’s important to be part of the community and also getting involved in the school next to us and nonprofit in our community is also super important and a couple of causes that are more national or unique to Atlanta. I think all of that was so important that you know, that’s what a Community restaurant is. Do you think for your community? And it did become. Regulars. You want your regulars to be either in your community mostly, but also we have people that come from Roswell mostly because just that his mother-in-law lives in Roswell and she doesn’t come by herself. She brings a dozen people with her, always. We’re not kind of regulars and.
We’ll we’ll tell us where Kitty there is, where community, and then how? What’s the feedback been from the community so far?
City there is located at 1029 Edgewood Ave. Northeast, which is the Heart of England. Mark right by the model station, there is the former one year Stag. The building itself has a big history. Deacon Burton was the first restaurant we actually found the original sign in the attic, and we have a picture of the converting himself on the side of the office wall. Then it became the patio, very popular shawns for about 3 years. And then one year stack and now us for about 2 1/2 coming on three years. And I just think it’s the most stunning building. I was always in love with that building and I actually was sitting at ECHO and seven few years ago and. I was telling the bartender if I ever do a restaurant in Atlanta, I would like to do it where Shawn’s is and then they go oh, he’s not renewing their lease and I got, Oh my God, I would love that building. And the guy 7 barstools and goes, oh, I just signed the lease that’s going to be my new restaurant called one year Stag. And it was a Scottish gentleman, and it was a British. Lady. And then there was the Chapter 3 opened at about 1012 years ago, but it’s ironic that we went around a decade and then we ended up.
Yeah, it’s amazing. What other. So again, it’s a, it’s a, it’s a crowded space. There are big restaurants every day. There’s so many. So many are similar. I will give you guys credit to begin with. It is a different place. It feels different when you walk in. The cuisine is different. The attention of wine is different. Even my interaction with the server was different and see everyone cares that is clear however. How do you get the message across to people? Because what they see is this restaurant open. We have to go. How are you getting your message out there besides your wonderful? Our people, how are we getting the message out there? How are you? Is it is the goal just to get everybody in once and make sure it’s the best damn experience ever to keep them coming back? How do you approach that? You’ve been in many restaurants. How do you approach it? And it’s got to be different than Italy because they don’t market in Italy. They just have community places that people kind of pop into. Yeah. How do you how do you how do you? How do you Mark, what does your marketing look like well?
- Previous working with our marketing firm, that’s we’re not even over a month. Old yet, I believe. We just try to be really nice to customers. My motto about service and food is, you know, treat people that you’re waiting on like you want to be treated when you go to a restaurant and you normally can judge customers whether they want to talk to you or they don’t want to talk to you, check back with them, fill them out and go from there and make sure that the food is satisfactory. That you’re nice to your table and know your menu and know your wine list so you can make appropriate suggestions, and I think we’ve done that really well. But we were sitting and wondering about 2 1/2 years later, why was it that we weren’t getting busy? And I eat out in Atlanta all the time. Some of the top popular restaurant. Guns. And I was baffled. Of course. I’m about to turn 66. So social media is a bit foreign to me. I’m such a Facebook person. I haven’t moved much past Facebook. And then my lovely.
It’s all pleasant, unless you’re marketing something.
And my controller Julie’s here suggested Karen’s company and said that they eat at Kitty there and they love coming to Kitty there and maybe we should. Into talking to them about possibility of them representing us. And we sat down and it was a great interaction. And of course a number of the young ladies that worked for them went to Georgia. So there was a connection already there and and and. And I must say that they’ve done wonders for us so.
It comes in little so. Well, let’s when we when we come back from the break, when we dive into that, some of the the successes and how that’s been played out and you’re listening. To the marketing one.
Trying to make sure give that 100 bucks now for.
Signing in and we’ve been listening to marketing Mad Men on next 106.3 we’ll be right back. Welcome back to the marketing madmen tryptophan. Nick Constantino here with Yumi and chef Jeff from Kenny Deer. And we were talking about kind of making that move into marketing. One of the key things is testimonial. So, Nick, I think you you actually.
Have one. Yeah. Yeah, I will say one of the things that marketing is just. Keeps getting hit in my head is. You don’t mark it if you don’t have the fundamentals down, right. And I think what you guys did a really good job of was you built the fundamentals, you made sure that the service was tight, that the menu was what you wanted, that the wine list matched before you started marketing. Everyone’s eyes get big and they want to market right away. But there are so many kinks to work out and you have to almost have a multi year. Soft opening. It’s not like back in the day where it’s like, oh. One month of soft opening family and friends. Boom. Let’s go.
People want to make promises and they’re not ready. To deliver on them.
You have to hone the craft and then you start marketing because everyone every you have a you only have one shot at a final impression, so you gotta get him in there. So I think my my personal review. So I walked in. It immediately felt homely, like the restaurants I had in New York and Atlanta is not good at that. Atlanta is good as oh, we need, we need a Neapolitan pizza. Place now there’s. 400 we have no ramen places now. There’s 400. They just follow the same trends because look, it’s expensive and it’s a hot market. I felt like I was at home, I felt comfortable and relaxed immediately. It helped that the waiter was the waiters name was Nick and. He was great. It helped. It helped a little. It helped a little bit. It was like my cousin was waiting on me, which helped. A little bit. You guys humored all of my dub reviews that I make to myself. I’m like, oh, this dish tastes like this because I think I’m a freaking expert. No one criticized me for that. A lot of times I get looks when I’m making my own judgments and the wine was wonderful and everything just felt like it was like a neighborhoody feel. And I’ve been longing for that in Atlanta. So my advice to anybody, if you’re looking for a place to go check it out. Don’t you don’t need to go and get decked out to do it. You don’t need to go and make this a anniversary, a wedding. Just if you want somewhere to eat, go experiment with the menu. I bet you’ll come back and want to try multiple things. There’s my. With you now, John, what would you say to people who have not been to you?
To get them to come see you, I think what’s unique about Kitty there is that we are Mediterranean, but we’re not. Mediterranean, Italian, Mediterranean, Greek. And when I sat down with Joseph we we talked about combining as many countries flavors and making a fusion that pulling. You know spices and special things from all over the Mediterranean. So in in that respect is very unique. And I think we’re very warm and I think we’re very fair in our pricing service is very friendly and bring your kids, I would love to see you.
Yeah, of course.
Chef, how would?
That we doing something very new, something that I don’t think anybody else. He’s doing at the moment because we are. We don’t have a very like, tight like identity. Yeah, we can kind of space all over the place and there’s no register so.
Dynamic structure, Amy.
If you want to try something very new and innovative. If you know you should try, you should come find us for sure.
Yeah. And I would say new, but I would, again, I would say comfortable because sometimes you is, is is scary and a threat and like it’s new, but it’s it’s not new that it’s gonna be off putting it’s like. You’re gonna you see.
New but homely.
Still homely, which is really important, I.
Yeah. And what I hear, I’ve not obviously been, but I hear because you’ve taken the different influences of Mediterranean cuisine, there’s going to be something probably that you’re going to find.
Think what people look for.
Comfort with. Or if you’re looking for something new, it’s not just this one narrow band, like, oh, I’m not sure if I’m going to like this. I think there sounds like there’s a breadth, whether it’s the the food menu or the wine, so.
Great, great. Great way to put it all right. So let’s get to what is what are where, where is the name, Kenny dare come from.
1980 UNCG I lived in a house where all the boys downstairs and girls upstairs and Kitty was the only woman that would come down party with the guys. And we had a very long friendship, almost 40 years. Unfortunately, she passed away of ovarian cancer in 2017, and I was with her the last few months. As much as I could. And her first name was Kitty and her middle name was there. And she was from Beaufort, NC, and both names. Obviously Kitty, because the name and and there was from Virginia there. The 1st Baby born, you know from the Mayflower. And so she had no kids. And I figured it would be a great way to honor her. And we would remember her forever. So tiny.
Deserve the legacy. It’s. It is an unbelievable name. And again, just the thought that went into that that most people are not doing that, that is a wonderful thing. So I also hear that there might be a new concept in the works I hear. I’ve I I I’ve heard some behind the scenes information. So obviously it’s been going well. Obviously you have wonderful PR people, wonderful chef.
That’s me.
It’s going. What’s the what’s the next move?
I would look out for Natalie, Bianca K also named after an incredible friend for some 40 year friendship who also sadly passed away recently in my life. So Kitty and Natalie were my 2 closest friends and it’s going to be in Cascade Heights in southwest Atlanta.
And the concept is going to be. Something that you’ll see when it.
Comes out. There you go. There you go. So what? What throw teams? What are we going to be excited for? Similar field, maybe different cuisines, but similar, maybe field.
Complete with your friend and very neighborhoody the neighborhood is already very excited and very, very comfortable. Casual fine dining again, really concentrating on giving the customer great wine program, great food and service at very reasonable prices. And I’m really, really excited.
It’s completely different feel than killing there, but it’s going to be the same, comfortable, friendly. Place to visit and be able to eat there 2. Or three times a week.
Yeah, love it. Alright. So let’s end with this. So I am a 30 year old person who wants to open a restaurant. I’m a maniac. I’m an insane person because it’s a hard industry to break into. What advice would you give to somebody that wants to open their first restaurant and we’re going to chef? What advice do we give to somebody who wants to be a chef? So what advice we give to somebody who’s like, you know what, gosh darn. And I’ve cooked my whole life. I love food. I love. I’m gonna open. A restaurant? Don’t do. It good thing you would say.
To them, I I think it’s really important for the whoever’s opening your restaurant to be versed in every aspect of the restaurant. So having storage the dishwasher.
Oh.
Worked in front of the house and then was forced into the kitchen on salary back in the 80s for 19,000 a year, six days a week. But I learned, you know, dishwasher. I learned line cooking. So as a GM owner, I was able to jump on the line and help out and also come out here to talk about wine. So learn every.
If one thing breaks in that chain, you’re screwed. Yeah, people can talk about the dishwasher, but no one has enough dishes to serve the whole night. If those dishes not clean.
Yes.
The whole chain is look at.
So important to have great dish for our dishwasher has been with us from almost day one. Here at Kitty there and then after they had dishwashers have been there 20 years because you got to treat them just like you treated fantastic line code. Learn every aspect of the restaurant. And be. We’re ready to work there every day. The first couple of years at.
Least. Yeah, and I imagine that most people get wrong. They look at it as a quick way to make a buck or they know a friend who. Loves it or they love. It and like, let’s open a restaurant.
That’s this way to lose $1,000,000.
And then chef. So hey, I cook a lot of dishes at home. My wife loves my food. I should be a chef. What advice would you give to a burgeoning chef who wants to go and? And and test the test the waters.
I would say pretty much like you got to be ready to a lot of things that are also not just cooking. You know, as exactly chef, you know, like most people think of when exactly chef that comes for the service on the line on the pass. Play the things with tweezers, say bye bye.
Yeah, yeah, the beard screw. For.
Yeah. No, no, it means like also, you know, like, I mean early in the morning, even though you have to work all night if you have to prep, maybe somebody call sick, you gotta cover and you know, you have to deal like with all the managing aspect of dealing with people and the scheduling.
You watching like?
Rising, changing. Yeah, it’s like basically like working like 78 hours a.
Week. Yeah, and actually. You’re you’re improvising all the time. Cause what they have. Yeah, well. You can’t just change how many, yes.
No, it’s like you gotta just the difference from coming from home. It’s like, you know, it’s like one thing is like cooking like that one dish or two dishes for your your family or your friends. Even 10 people or whatever. The other thing is, like, have everything son or dies. Have everybody, like, do the same thing as you would like, duplicate your job probably. Duplicate your job is the the hardest thing to do, and this that’s the thing. That, you know, I would put Jackson more like if you want to open or do something. Yours like in your kitchen, make sure that everybody like work as the same way you do. That’s the hardest thing. Yeah. Consistency is not easy. Consistency. Yes.
That’s that’s what. Do it’s fantastic advice from both of you and really enjoyed having you here today and wish you all the success. Continued success with Kenny Dare and also with the new venture. So if you’re down in the Inman Park arena, give give Kitty there a try. So. You’ve been listening to the marketing Mad Men on extra 106.3 we’ll be. Back next week.
