From Fire Pits to Gather Grills: The Evolution of a Pandemic-Inspired Business
Description:
Join the Marketing Mad Men as they dive into the entrepreneurial journey of Jed Strange, founder of Gather Grills. Discover how a pandemic hobby turned into a thriving business, the challenges of raising investment, and the strategic marketing plans that are setting Gather Grills apart in a crowded market.
Key Takeaways:
- Origin Story: How Gather Grills was born from a pandemic hobby.
- Investment Journey: The importance of involving investors early and lessons from Kickstarter campaigns.
- Marketing Insights: Strategies for content creation, influencer partnerships, and building a strong brand presence.
- Product Development: The iterative process of creating a unique grill and plans for a smaller, portable version.
- Business Scalability: Exploring potential verticals and the balance between profit margins and volume.
Keywords:
Gather Grills, Jed Strange, entrepreneurial journey, pandemic business, grilling culture, investment, Kickstarter, marketing strategy, direct-to-consumer, product development
To listen to past episodes click here
Summary:
- Introduction and Background:
- The hosts introduce the show and their guest, Jed Strange.
- Jed shares his background, mentioning his entrepreneurial family and his father’s invention of a hydraulic deer stand, which later became a portable guard tower for the Atlanta Olympics.
- Gather Grills Origin:
- Jed explains how the idea for Gather Grills came about during the COVID-19 pandemic when he was experimenting with cooking on a large fire pit.
- He describes the iterative process of developing the grill, including adding a table around it and making it spin with ball bearings.
- Validation and Investment:
- Jed invited friends and family to test the grill and provide feedback.
- He hosted a dinner to pitch the idea to potential investors, eventually securing about 10 investors.
- Business Insights:
- The conversation touches on the importance of human connection, especially during COVID-19, and how grilling can bring people together.
- They discuss the challenges and rewards of running a business, the importance of user experience, and the need for proper marketing and distribution strategies.
- Future Plans:
- The hosts and Jed talk about the scalability of the business and potential verticals, such as integrating the grills into homes or using them for chef demonstrations.
The conversation continues with a focus on the branding and marketing strategy for Gather Grills. Here are the key points:
- Branding and Naming:
- The hosts joke about the name “Strange Grills” and how it might not be appealing to customers.
- They discuss the importance of a good brand name and how it can impact customer perception.
- Investment and Business Formation:
- Jed shares his experience of raising seed money from friends and family and then moving on to investors.
- He emphasizes the importance of involving investors early on to avoid burning through personal funds and to gain valuable advice and support.
- Kickstarter Campaigns:
- Jed talks about the challenges and lessons learned from their first failed Kickstarter campaign.
- He highlights the importance of pre-hype and having a strong initial push to succeed on platforms like Kickstarter.
- Marketing and Customer Acquisition:
- The hosts discuss the importance of content marketing and education in promoting a complex product like Gather Grills.
- They talk about the need for engaging and informative videos to help potential customers understand the product’s features and benefits.
- Product Development and Scalability:
- Jed explains the development of a smaller, more portable version of the grill to cater to a wider audience.
- They discuss the potential applications of the smaller grill, such as tailgating and camping, and how it complements the larger version.
- Future Marketing Strategies:
- The conversation touches on the challenges of marketing a niche, high-end product.
- They discuss the potential benefits of direct sales versus using distributors and the importance of building a strong brand presence.
- Profit Margins and Volume:
- The hosts discuss the balance between profit margins and volume, noting that while big retailers take a significant cut, they can also provide the necessary volume to make it worthwhile.
- Content Creation and Influencers:
- Jed plans to create high-quality content and leverage influencers to build brand awareness and drive sales.
- They have applied to appear on Shark Tank and are exploring partnerships with big retailers like Sam’s Club and Costco.
- Product Line Expansion:
- The discussion covers whether to stick with the core product (grills) or expand into related areas like consumables and accessories.
- Jed emphasizes the importance of not expanding too quickly and staying true to the core product.
- Direct-to-Consumer Model:
- The benefits of a direct-to-consumer model are highlighted, including better profit margins and closer customer relationships.
- However, the challenges of customer service and managing returns are also discussed.
- Marketing Strategy:
- The hosts suggest focusing on creating engaging and educational content to help customers understand and use the product effectively.
- They also discuss the importance of building a strong brand presence and differentiating in a crowded market.
- Future Plans:
- Jed mentions plans to introduce a smaller, more portable version of the grill to appeal to a broader audience.
- They are also considering partnerships with charcoal companies and butcher shops to offer high-quality consumables.
Transcript:
Happy Saturday. Welcome to the marketing Mad Men Trip, Joe and Nick Constantine here live from the battery and you know it’s it’s going to be fun. Today we got some of our favorite things to do, talking about food and spending time with friends and outdoors. And I think it’s all all driven by.
Yeah.
Jed Strange is joining us from gather grills.
Welcome, Jen. Thanks so much, dear.
Yeah. You know, Jeff, it’s funny. So I will be pretty soon, 10 years in Georgia, 10 years in the South, ten years in Atlanta. And I tell people and I tell people all the time, I get more southern year by year. And one of those big things was understanding the concept of the than the culture behind grilling. It’s just a different thing and I love, I love the northeast. It’s just a different thing. First of all, the seasons are so different, right? No one’s going outside. It’s 4° outside.
Your visa is running out.
Grill just not happening and two like there you have one grill and that’s the multipurpose. Here I mean somehow have 6 grills now like you need one for everything. It just becomes such a lifestyle thing. So I’m excited to have this conversation. You know, now we can go get some strange also because we got Mr. Judd strange here. So getting strange is also super fun. So. So Jed, why don’t you? But let’s before we even get to gather grills because I think that’s gonna be our middle.
Yeah.
Talk about you. We talked before and you had a pretty big pivot in COVID and there’s some venting in your family. You’ve gone through this before. Let’s set the stage to how you got together grills because that’ll lead us into the rest of the. Sensation.
Sounds good, but it your voice is definitely your pace has slowed down now that you’ve been here. You’re really on a slow southern pace.
I I think so. I tried. I’ve tried so.
Essentially, I grew up in a entrepreneurial family thing. I’ve got four brothers. We’re all kind of in our own stuff, which sounds glamorous and fun, but it’s running, running your own business sucks a lot of times it’s really tough. But my dad invented a hydraulic deer stand in the early 90s for a friend of his. That brought his son that had broken his leg, so he grew up on a farm and did a lot of outdoor stuff like that. And ran that business for a couple of years as a hobby business. And when the Olympics came to Atlanta, turned it into a portable guard tower, and then we got into trying to build a business for. The first time. Growing up on a farm and didn’t have a. Clue what we were.
Doing so so pretty much the stand comes. Down. So you really. And for hunting someone who couldn’t climb up, comes down, puts them up, and then hydraulically lifts back up for elevation. And then it became a guard tower, because now you can load all your equipment on.
Yep.
And go up as opposed to carrying everything up so the Olympics needed security. So they’re putting up all these different venues that are gonna be.
Yeah.
February. So they bought. They actually leased 30 pre Olympics. They did that Olympics they leased.
Every year.
Versus the Centennial incident. OK, that was insurance. This was a panic buy or this was pretty Olympics.
Yes, yes. No, no, this is pretty yeah.
The price doubled after that.
But they got thirty of them and they put them at all the different spaces for parking lot security and event security, and which we thought was amazing now. Didn’t factor in the fact. That at the end of the Olympics, of course, they’re sending them all back to us, but it really is what got us on the map and kind of launched that business. So we ran that for 10 years and then I got out and turned our farm into a corporate retreat space. It shut down during COVID. I had a big fire pit there, had had not much to do, didn’t know if we were ever going to leave the farm. Of course, we were all wondering. A lot of things, and I started to figure out how to cook on it for fun and next thing. You know, I’m. I’m dumping some of my personal money into it. Going to either. This is an expensive hobby that I need to stop, or I need to get some.
Investors. So that’s how it started. So talk about that, you know, because and whether it’s COVID or there’s different times that business owners have to or should go through that whole rethinking and what’s the possibility?
Yeah, yeah.
And what you know, was it a just a light bulb moment? Was it a, you know, boy, just kind of doing the same thing over a period of time, you know, kind of got you going, what was the? The you know the time process where you started to say, hey, I maybe maybe we have something here.
So COVID hit in February 2000. I started cooking on this thing February, but we were cooking on it in a very rudimentary way. We were just kind of building the fire and trying to build something, and I had a friend of mine who had a plasma cutter. So I said, hey, can you cut something custom with our logo in it? So we did that and then thought, man, this is going to make for some cool pictures, but you did.
Service.
But as we started using it, we’re like, this isn’t practical. Like nobody’s going to buy this thing and cook on it. So somebody said you need to put a table around the outer edge of it. All right, we’ll do that. So we did that and then the grill was. So. Big it was almost 7 feet across. Yeah. So we couldn’t reach it. And we’re like, well, now we’ve just created a massive you’re never going to move it, but it’s the only it’s it’s really cool.
Frank.
You’ve got the only. One, it’ll take really cool pictures, but that was as far as we thought it was going. So and then we had an idea to make it spin and put ball bearings in it, and that’s what really turned it into people saying, man, I think you got something.
Here and I’m like kind of the iterative process over month two over it was it was about.
It evolves.
2:00 to 3:00, but about two to three months. It took about two to three months, and about I hate to even say it about $50,000 worth of experimentation, but figuring out what didn’t work. Yeah, versus, I mean, I think we see that a lot of people get that idea and they get that glimmer and then they run to commercialize right away.
Right.
Yes, that’s on eBay. Yeah, that’s that’s today. That’s today. You need ROI, everyone they would brain goes to ROI and they go 10 steps above. I’m just curious how many great stories in life started with the words my friend had a plasma cutter, right? That’s that’s I’m. I’m still stuck on that one. Like there are times where I’m like, you know what? If I just had a friend who had a freaking plasma cutter? This would have been a much easier.
That’s a that’s a big that more often than not, that’s a big. Mistake.
That’s my son.
Thing, but you know, one of the things I I think the recurring theme of COVID was people were desperate for human connection. Yeah. And one of the best parts about food and what I’ve learned about grilling again is that culture and lifestyle, whether it’s tailgating, you’re not using it for the utility of cooking it, which is. Amazing, right? Yeah. The grease comes off. It’s just it’s a great thing to do, but you’re doing because everyone gets around the grill and there’s a conversation. The meats. And so you’re sitting out there having conversations. So I think you know from what I’ve heard and that COVID, if that COVID didn’t happen, maybe this company didn’t exist. Maybe if people weren’t long for that human connection, you weren’t. Wouldn’t be outside. Wide gathering around this place where this is now, like the cultural, the center of everything. So as weird as it sounds, it sounds like COVID was a huge impact and and LED you to.
A lot of these things, I don’t think it would have happened because I wouldn’t have had time to work on it. I’ve had a Big Green Egg, have had different grills. I took a Blackstone, put a table around it. I’ve I’ve. I’ve tried to build this thing before. And it I built something that worked. A picnic table with Blackstone in it. I mean, I put on the hat and I could do the thing, but it was cool. But it’s, you know, it was just. Something. In my backyard. But to be able to combine the things that I love, which is sitting around fire, being able to cook, being able to grill. Like you would on a typical charcoal grill, but also having the griddle aspect and then having a smoker. And having a table, it’s just kind of. Like you can click for a couple. 100 people. If you need to, yeah. Or you can do a really cool like Chef table. Private cook for your family, cook for your friends. And there’s no better way to eat a steak or eat really anything, in my opinion, than right off the grill. There’s nothing more annoying to me than cooking out for people, and they’re all talking and they’re all over the place. And I got the steaks. Ready. And I’m like, OK. As soon as I get them off the soon as I get them off the grill, I want them eating it in the next two minutes or it’s going to start. To go down.
Hill, I know the game. I I I’ve actually eons ago I ran a little personal chef business and me and the other chef would fight all the time because he want to play everything. Yeah, I’m like, do I have time to play? These are lamb chops.
If you don’t eat this to get them in, yeah, yeah.
Think you got gold? From the grill, like you’re boosting out and then of course, ironically, all the people in this, we were like Sundance Film Festival in front of legit people and everyone’s like, I don’t wanna freaking plate. Dude. I want the lamb chop off the grill. If my mouth isn’t burning at the top and my palate isn’t burnt, I’m not eating it correctly. So and again there. That’s the.
I rather I love it.
That’s the the Cardinal. That’s the animal on us too, right? Man like that with the blood comes. Out there’s something about that.
We’re getting real.
Crazy. You know what I’m saying? There’s some. There’s something about it. Yeah, there’s something about it. So. So we have, you know it. And so you did your R&D. You’re to the point now where you know this is something. So what moment you were talking?
But it’s true, yeah. OK.
Before we we started that, you were the next thing was we had seen money and if you if you couldn’t get to see money, my friends and family didn’t believe in this. I wasn’t going to move forward. One you’d already put your own money in. So that’s a hard thing. Talk about that moment. Talk about what made you decide to move forward and the how the support. Of friends and family made you realize that you really had something here. Yeah, great.
Question so. I I knew we had something that was cool. I knew we had something people would think would be cool and would come over and let me go through the difficult process of potentially working something. That’s not it’s not made in a way that people would buy it, but I would know it so they could come over and use it, but I didn’t think until we made it spin. I had something so after we did that, I just invited people over, I said because I’ve got our. Our family has extended families, you know. 12 kids and brothers. And so there’s a bunch people. So they were the test bed and I pretty much told everyone of my brothers. I said all right, cook your favorite dish on. And. Tell me what you think. So they did and they of course not afraid to tell me their feedback. And they gave me some. It’s too low. It’s they gave me some feedback that was good. But they’re like but. It was really a lot of fun and the steak was really good, so it was at least passed the sniff test. And so I tweaked a couple of those things. And then I had more people. Had some friends come over and I had enough. Enough people come over to say, man, I think I think you I think you got something. And then I turned around and said. How much do you believe that it, you know, pretty much said, were you willing to jump in with me? And I got enough people to jump in with me. I hosted a big dinner at my house with.
Grills did the pitch and said.
I mean this is this is Shark Tank night. I mean this is wells opportunity ask me questions and I got about 10 investors in about it took about six weeks and got about 10 investors. Well it’s interesting though that to one of your early experiments is from what I heard you had put other people on the grill and had them do it. And what I’ve seen a lot of times. With. Consumer goods is the expert still does the demo, whether it’s to investors or not, right? And so it’s it’s not the same. So you actually got better probably feedback of having someone else sit behind or sit, you know one one part of the the grill and utilize it versus you doing it and then.
Just watching. Yeah, it was so cool. Just even the story I told you guys before we walked in here like I’m having my, my dad, my brother, my nieces and nephews all crowded around this grill in the early stages of. Validate it and just yesterday for an hour we were on the phone with a prominent chef to have him validated. So yesterday we had somebody validated that I’m like if he gives it a check, I think we’ve now we’ve kind of got the next level of encouragement to go to another level with the business which is which is a wildly scalable business.
Well, I think there’s also so many different verticals, right. Scalable is one thing, getting into your house, but there’s also having external exterior modeling companies build these into people’s houses that’s a vertical. Then there’s also the what if you were a chef? That they, they you came brought up with you and showed up at someones house and brought it with you because that’s ultimately like look, you can be the best barbecue in the world having three different things, a smoker, a griddle is not easy to do, like having all your vegetables cause the thing that everyone gets wrong is timing, right?
Yeah.
You get a time everything.
You got. You got a lot of things going on. We’re going to maybe dive into that business plan in a little bit, but when we come back from the break, let’s dive in a little bit more about the gather grills. And so we’ll do that in just a few minutes and you’re listening to the marketing men on extra 106.3. We’ll be right back.
Yeah, say it goes fast.
Nice. You guys are professionals.
I’m sub AD.
Like the you know, and he’s like they.
That’s good. Great questions.
All right. So we’ll come back. Let’s, let’s get into the nuance of running a business. Let’s talk about, hey, some things that would surprise you. This is more advice for people. Hey, if you have an invention or you want to start a business, let’s do that advice. And then, you know, let’s at at some point talk about hey, and, you know, the goal is now we’re to the point where I think we have something we can market. And then trip, we can chime in and start talking about, hey, you said everyone does it wrong. They think they should market right away, but there’s so many things you have to get in line user. Experience the distribution networks. All that set up, and then we’ll come back in the break and we can give some tips back on how to market this thing. And because it’s not, you know you’re talking 4 or $5000 grills. There’s not just people growing. On trees that can buy this, how do you reach those people? Blah, blah, blah blah blah.
Sounds good alright.
Welcome back to the marketing madman trip job, and Nick Constantino here with the judge. Strange of gather. Grills.
Still love the name, by the way. Still love the name. Still love the name. I think people might have. Just bought the name. Like this guy’s strange. I want him.
Well, I see it’s not strange girls. Scatter growth, but you’re all right.
Man, no ones gonna buy a strange grill. They might like the name and they think he’s strange, but no one. ‘S gonna buy. Something that says strange grill. If I called this the company strange radio. Oh **** there. Might be something there. Founder beat that.
Easy enough. Form is called strange form.
There you go that I. Like, I wonder what you’re selling on there, though, and then my mind wanders. Other places, things that are being.
Sold on that farm. So you you you start going to your friends and family funds and then now you’ve got to go to investors and. You’ve Jed strange going to investors, So what? What is? You know that process. How did you think about, you know, really forming and saying, hey, this is going to be a business. And what what were some of your key learnings through that process of taking it from the seed money to, you know, really going, going hard at this is a? Is a new business.
Yeah. So we’ve been through it once with the business that my dad started and we learned a lot. I mean, if you don’t, if you’ve never been through it, don’t have anybody holding your hand it it’s the only the biggest way you’re going to learn is just make mistakes and make mistakes. And hopefully you got enough money to get you through all the mistakes. So we we made those mistakes and I wasn’t going to make those again. So one of the mistakes we made was we’re just going to carry this thing ourselves without getting people involved. From from an investor standpoint and an advice standpoint and we.
Yeah.
We just burn through a lot more money than we would have, so getting those guys involved and honestly and giving up some ownership, you know that that’s one of the reasons a lot of people won’t do it. They don’t want to.
Giving up some ownership.
Everyone’s got skin in the game, yeah.
Give up what it’s going to take, which might be 25 to 50. Percent yeah, basis.
I think that, and I think that thank goodness that model is changing between esops and employee of sponsorship. These everyone’s understanding that the psychology of an employee is different nowadays and because if you look how often people bounce around giving them stake in the game just makes them work so much harder towards an end goal, especially when that end goal is clear in mind. You have a product. The end goal is to have people have the product. It’s a very tangible thing and if that happens.
Friends.
We all make money. Makes it a little bit easier, so I’m glad. To see, that’s.
Changing. Yeah. So the first the first. Investment tranche we got was 2020, I gave up 20%. But to think about no, I’d rather have 100% and not have that money and not have those 10 people helping me telling their friends buying grills for their.
Client, it almost becomes a board of directors. I mean almost have a board they.
It’s not.
Have to check. Your own self against too. Yeah. And it’s just a no brainer for me.
To to want to have more more support. So we did that. But another thing we did, which you know if I was talking to people who are starting businesses, you can raise money lots of ways. You know, the best way to raise money is sell product. That’s the best way because you know you’re selling product and you’re not having to get up anything. That’s another option. But debt can shackle you you know because you have all these obligations.
It could spiral down the the interest rate goes up. You’re paying a higher we we know that. Everyone knows that game. It’s happening the other day, you see business go under now that’s.
Super, Super, super stressful. We need a Yep.
It it’s the. It’s the shackles of debt, but we do.
But we did a Kickstarter campaign, which you guys might be familiar.
Yes. Essentially, crowdfunding, so you throw it out.
Here to the. To the Kickstarter world, and pretty much say we all support it. You’re not. You’re not investing a lot of money in terms of equity, but will you pre buy a grill so we can deliver it six months later? So the first one we did failed.
Yep.
And the second one we did was successful.
Failed. Why? What does your gut say? Why it failed?
Because I didn’t know anything about Kickstarter and what I’ve learned is if you if you hop into Kickstarter without having any pre pre hype like. When it goes live, if you don’t get a lot of stuff happening, it’s it’s algorithm based and I thought algorithm based meant I get my friends and you know, hey, you guys go in there and buy a hat. The day goes on. But now we’re about to do another Kickstarter for the mini version, which is going to be 800 to $1800.
It’s it’s momentum based.
Yeah. Yeah.
And we are going to have. Like probably 1000 people who are already ready to punch the button before the Kickstarter goes on, so I just didn’t know. You gotta you gotta get him prepped. You gotta get already before him, yeah.
Got it, got it.
Those algorithms. That’s that’s anything man. Like when you go on LinkedIn, it is gauging your first 6 minutes and how many people engage and how quickly people share immediately YouTube videos. If you see it at six, there’s no way it’s gonna get to 10,000. Yeah, but if you see it at 800 quickly, it probably has a chance to do it. And what the platforms are trying to do is if you are a value to the platform because ultimately as much as Kickstarter is a money maker.
Exactly. Zach, what’s happening?
If there’s a million people that go to a Kickstarter, makes ad revenue of all the people that go to it, they have. All that data, so they are just vetting out whether this thing is a value to it. Yeah. And again, like you said wisely, because now that’s the same thing for YouTube, right. When you make a video, if your Kickstarter campaign also follows a YouTube video, you get 1000 people. We’re gonna buy 1000 people also watch the YouTube video. Then all of a sudden, this stuff spreads virally. Now it’s gimmicky because that doesn’t mean you have long term brand value. For what you’re trying to do for a video or a social media post, the game works and it’s pretty easy once you figure it out how to do it. Yeah. And again, I think it’s a good advice for people because what people try to do is they think ohh this idea is so good. Like it doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter if you have the best podcast in the world if you’re not playing the SEO game, no one’s looking. It could be the most appealing video. If if you don’t play the game right, no one’s looking at it. So I think that’s and that’s what I’m glad you found it out early, because people just make that same mistake over and over again because they think the quality of the content matters and.
Unfortunately, in this world it doesn’t always work that way. Yeah, it’s the psychology of if you go on Amazon to buy something. You better. You’re going to have to really want it. Really like it if you’re going to buy something that already doesn’t have a lot of reviews because you don’t want to be the first person to get it and it’s, you know, obviously bad. So it’s the same type of thing here is. If if it if it’s ranking up and a lot of other people already pushing it, it’s like well, there must be something here and it just we had a video that just went to 7.2 million views and it just caught it caught a wave this random kind of influencer traded us a grill for some promotion and it. Worked.
Yeah, that’s great. I’m curious. So when you were when one of the things I understand about Kickstarter is, is what people do wrong, is they they get the timeline wrong and they do a Kickstarter campaign, but they don’t make their deadline of getting the product out. And then it all goes down very quickly because you’ll never, your credibility is gone. What did you do to ensure that you had the product that it was going to be made and was going to be ready to go by the time that you said it was going to?
You can’t deliver him.
On the first run, very little we were we we were the problem child on the first one because we were just trying to get any traction we could. So it wasn’t that we were throwing out things that we didn’t think we could do, but we we didn’t know what we could do. We didn’t know if.
Wait.
We were going to sell 10 grills or. 500 grills, so we kind of said, OK, we threw a timeline out there and we were able to hit it because we didn’t. We didn’t have a huge. Funding. But if it had blown up, we would have, we would have had to send out, you know, send out something, say, hey, we’re sorry. The man was a whole lot more than we thought, and we probably would have upset some people because we would have gone from like a four month delivery to like a 12 month delivery.
Yeah, that’s a huge deal. A year later, it’s just you. You’re without something that appeals gone in a couple of months, six months. Someone can wait. There’s hype. Let’s get.
Yeah.
Past that point.
Yeah, you’re in a product category that sometimes there can be, you know if it’s an extra couple weeks, it’s fine. But you’re also in a category that there, there’s a little bit of seasonality to it. I think some of what you’re doing is taking the seasonality. The way but we also know those products that couldn’t deliver and then the seasons gone and it’s eight months till yeah till you need them again and that’s when you’re dead and some of these Kickstarter campaigns, they never get off the ground and people lose their money and and that’s a risk you have to sign when you’re buying something from Pixar. So if it’s a brand new company like ours we have no track record.
Anybody buying our product is is it’s a risk, whereas now we’re coming out with a new product with track record, a website and you know we’ve got all the stuff that people are like, OK, these. As they’ve been around for 3 1/2 years, so if they’re coming out with something new, the chances of them actually delivering on that with quality and timing are so much better. So we think we think this next run is.
Going to be really good. You’re capitalizing hype that’s already there versus a lot of times what they say is they’re going to give you a huge discount to buy it the first time they’re willing to take it at cost or a little bit of a loss. To build the hype. Yeah. So. But you know, you’re going in with the traction, so you have that already built into. It and honestly, most people who use it. Their brain probably goes to man to be cool, bite a smaller one. Yep, right. Just like when you buy the little big green and all of a sudden, wait a second. Now I need the bigger one, right? And the solo stove. Wait, it’d be really nice. Got this little one out here. So you’re it’s the next logical progression. Talk a little bit about the little one because in my head I think easy to bring to tailgates. I think that’s. Where my mind goes, talk about what you think the application of the little one being, how it’s gonna be different than the bigger products.
Yeah, good question. So the first, the first fire pit we had that I wasn’t trying to build a grill. One of the biggest fire pit they made, which I bought a 48 inch, £350 fire pit. It’s not meant to be able.
Not point. No, not not meant to be.
Not meant for every size house? No. And it’s not meant to be turned into a grill, which we did. But after we turned it into it, we built a smaller one, and then we built a smaller 1, and now we’re about to. Build the smallest one because. The average person is not cooking for 1020 people. The average person is cooking for their family and also the average person. If they’re going to cook everything on that grill. To manage that much food you you need to know what you’re doing or be a chef. So coming out with this small grill, it’s going to have all the functionality, the table, the smoker, the grill, the griddle, and the fire pit feature. But it’s going to be 18 inches, which is kind of your standard Big Green Egg, Komodo type of size. It’s just going to be more.
Four to six people, four to six people. Yep.
It’ll have five seats at it. We’re excited about it. We think a lot more people are going to gravitate to that and like you said that the people who have the big one. They will start thinking of applications like. I’m not going to take this to a college football game or I’m not going to take it on a camping trip. I need a small 1 now and the people who get the small one, hopefully they’ll like it enough where like man, the only issue I’ve got with.
My small grill is I wish I had a bigger 1, so yeah, I wonder how much so one of the things I’ve has really.
No, she’s himself.
Content marketing and and education. And because like like you said, like if you you buy this and you use it once and it’s too technically complicated, not just that’s not a good thing, right. Those aren’t good reviews. So how much of of your job and your marketing if you will is education is showing demos of how this works and the different applications. I imagine when you talk celebrity chefs, that’s where their heads goes like man I can do. A whole kind of dinner that you would require multiple things cooking inside, outside slow cooker. But I can do it all here. Now. How much is education a part of all this?
So I watch Shark Tank a lot. I don’t know if you guys do, but they talked about customer acquisition cost and essentially if you’ve got a wonderful idea, but it takes you having to explain it for an hour to get people to get it. They’re like, it doesn’t matter if it’s a wonderful idea, it’s going to cost too much to.
Park was that good?
Get. With. So we’re. We’re working through that right now, is. If the if the videos can be engaging enough that people want to watch them, nobody wants to. No, especially men. Not to stereotype, but we typically don’t want to watch instructional videos or read manuals, right? So unless it’s got some sizzle to it, most guys aren’t going to take the time to watch it, so we believe. Leave with the right type of video. That will educate and entertain at the same time. So.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I also think you’re going after somebody if you’re gonna buy this, you know what it entails, right? There’s a difference between pulling, pulling out an old Weber Red Grill and going in an egg like. And that’s why I tell people it’s funny. It’s similar. What I say about golf. Like they don’t buy good clubs to start. Yeah, start with atrocious clubs, cause when it’s gonna click one day when you buy real clubs you like, Oh my goodness, this actually helped. People do that, they they hit one good golf ball like we need $6000 clubs, right? This is it. So start there if you’re going through the process and you’re grilling and you’re learning how these things work, indirect heat, heat, smoking. Then this is a logical progression. Then it makes more sense. You don’t need as much education. You can wing it and learn on the fly, and maybe you don’t use all the functionality right. The griddle is pretty easy to use. I mean, you don’t take a rocket science to figure how to use a griddle to make something so OK that that makes sense. What else? What else? I think one of the things like marketing wise, it’s a niche product. I mean niche cause it’s expensive and it starts up my person that. Afford it you. Need to have a big backyard space. You need that practical application. Talk about. I know you’re not at the let’s mass market this yet, but talk about what your vision is and some of the some of the things you think marketing wise will really help.
So every business like ours would love to sell direct because you cut out that, you know, essentially when you’re selling through dealers and distributors.
And Amazon, anyone? 10 percent, 20% off the bat, no matter what if.
More than that, more than that, they’re going to take the majority of your profit, but if they bring the volume, then you’re willing to give it up. But if you can get volume and profit, that’s obviously the greatest. So.
You’re lucky, yeah.
Our goal is to create just really good content, continue to push it out, hope it catches some. Viral nature to it, we’re going to sign up an influencer to that clearly have more St. credit than I do on a video. And we’re just that’s one of the ways that we’re going to do it. We we have it. We’ve been talking to the big box, Sam’s, Costco, some of the big ones because sometimes you. Get it out particularly. Your your. Entry level product. You get it out to those and they see it there and then they go to your website. Sure. So we’re going to hit it both ways. I mean we’re, we’ve applied to Shark Tank to do that. We’re essentially trying to any opportunity that opens itself, we’re going to.
So. So you had. A couple of things. One, you have to go to market. So ideally as you said, you want to be direct to consumer, but you’re thinking about ways that might expand that, yeah, whether it’s, you know, specialty stores or the big guys, the next piece. Is do you want to just play in? Let’s just call it the fire pit grill category? Or are you looking to expand the product line? Are you looking to expand into consumables accessories? I mean those are things people have to to think about and you know depending on what? You know what businesses do sometimes? I’ve seen them where you expand too quickly, right? And so I don’t know how you’re.
Yeah, I was gonna say, can I put my can? I put my gut in.
There right most times. See what you’re trying to approach is this. Hey, this is what we do. We may have different sizes, but this is what we do. We do well or are. We thinking, you know a broader broader.
Scope. First of all, I’m walking into the the Braves world here, which I’m a big Braves fan. You guys are pretty smart. I mean, I’m. I’m really surprised. I feel. Like I’m sitting sitting.
What’s this guy? Look at us.
We’re like ohh.
I mean, it’s only 160 episodes.
When I walk in, when I walk in somewhere and I have to pull on a. Baseball bat to get in. I’m not expecting. These questions but great questions. So to answer your question.
That.
Started with the grill because originally we were like, we’re going to start with grill and charcoal and we’re going to mail order food. And. And we didn’t do it just because we didn’t have the bandwidth to do it. So we started with grill. The grill is now stable. We’re not changing the design. I’m not going in there tweaking it. So the next couple of things that. We did is. The prep table is everybody who’s using this drill is going to need to put stuff behind so you could use a card tape. Yep. And then when you’re taking stuff off the grill like the the spark screen or the hood, if you’re not smoking or you pull everything out to be a fire pit, it’s got to go somewhere, particularly if.
Chopping vegetables, everything. Yeah.
Hot so the prep table. You can slide it in there. It’s got dividers in it. It’s almost like a filing cabinet or tackle box for the grill. So we, we’ve got that. We’ve got functional things like.
Functional things, though. Functional things. Yeah, but that and that ties into your direct to consumer model, because companies that have done what you’re looking at doing well, they get people hooked on the key item and then they add those accessories and potentially consumables. But they added that tie into the the product. Oh, I’m already a loyalist. Yeah, I need a prep table. I don’t have a prep table. Boy, this makes sense, right? So.
Yeah, I think those those are supporting mechanisms of the core product. I think really lines of problems and usually you see the demise of these companies is when they start going ancillary like they they bring in the other lines like you’re making salt and you’re making rubs. And I understand the thought behind it. But usually what happens is your sales are down for two or three quarters in a row and like Oh my God, can we make money?
Exactly. To yeah. Exactly right.
You need jerk. You do it wrong. I mean, there’s a certain person comes to mind who, who you’ve had on the show before, who their restaurant is completely going down and they’re like, let’s put our product in supermarket.
Yes.
It’s and by the name of the thing. It’s not going to catch the way they think it’s going to, but it almost seems like a a last desperate plea, right? There’s these companies who they lose at the restaurant, so they try to get a brand out there, they go mass consumer. They probably make no. Margins or they sell the? Brand to somebody else. So I think that’s a, a, A.
You’re being true to what you are.
Fine line. They have to be.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, you understand your your go to market. Strategy your product strategy, then, then eventually you can get into your marketing strategy, but if you don’t understand those first two, your marketing strategy is going to be all over the board. Yeah, the found we we had to get the foundation profitable and.
The quality, high and and people associate when they’re buying together grill, they’re going to get a really, really high end products going to be a little bit more on the on the expensive side. But really the the many is going to be right in line with every other grill. It’s going to start at 899. So you get under that $1000 mark and normal just everyday. People are at least looking at it at that. Here.
And you’re you’re opening up the entryway, right? You’re getting them into the ecosystem, right? That’s why Mercedes sells a crappy little car because they want you to get used to buying Mercedes. So eventually the $100,000 car. I mean, they’re awful. They entry level. Mercedes is one of the worst automobiles on the road. It doesn’t even feel it’s got, like, 180 horsepower you’re driving. Around it. But you do it because.
Like you got the logo.
You got the logo and then eventually you. Hopefully you go up the line, so that’s.
Right.
What you have for?
And we’ve spoken to charcoal yesterday we were online with the charcoal. Company we were speaking with a a butcher shop that’s getting into mail order and we don’t want to do mail order. You can order anything from the grocery store. You can get it.
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah. I thought we. Yeah, we don’t want we we don’t. Smart man. He’s a democracy.
Straight from Russia.
We want to get some girls in the. Ukraine. So if you could help us, that’d be great.
Yeah.
But we we want to get into that, but we want to get into it very simply, like we might just do meat. And if we do it, we’re not going to, we’re not going to go open a slaughterhouse, we’re going to put, you know, partner with somebody who’s doing it.
We’re just latching on to whether but, but again I answer it because when you’re talking about spending $5000 on a growing lifestyle, then the quality.
Hey.
Meat you use matters, not the cut of meat. This is a mistake people always make. I’m not saying the cut, I’m saying the quality. They’re really good steaks that are not as expensive as the best steaks. But if you get a good quality hanger steak, there’s not many better things in life. Than a good quality hanging steak. So that’s what I mean.
And I’ll I’ll I will add. As you think about it, because you’re thinking about your whole business plan. It is one thing to. To handle the customer service side of things for hard goods that you’re doing now, when you start to get into consumables. The customer service on a go to you know, go to direct to consumer model is night and day different and that’s something that people don’t realize if they’ve never been in that consumable market. The customer experience, I mean it is.
It’s a lot more.
Good point.
Is 50 times. You know the pace.
You know, and and you’re right. But one of the things that gets really hard when talk about that is user error, right. You can make the best customer experience. If these morons don’t know how to use it or they burn themselves, then there’s only so.
Well, that’s.
Exactly. So right. But are you? What’s your approach going to be? Am I going to if someone?
Much that’s in your control. Well, they can’t use the Nick approach cause I ride back and back. You’re a dummy. Don’t burn yourself. Or how about you learn how to use it, you moron, you. Or how about you put your.
Right.
Blinker on when you change lanes as opposed to but.
But with consumer best supreme with consumers, you have to decide, am I going to be in nordstroms and just accept everything back? Am I going to be a more hard line and say and it’s totally different than how you probably.
And that’s a really hard question to answer.
Approach the customer service experience on your grills, right? And I’m not. I’m not saying don’t do it. It’s just you need to prepare and it will be night and day. Different than with the hardness.
And that is all part of the marketing and I’ve just decided what we’re gonna do for segment 3 and segment 3, we’re going to give little tips and tidbits like that about marketing because that’s really important, right? And the how you market, one of the big things you say. Nordstrom they did graded that. They took everything back. Then they made Nordstrom Rack and was like, why the hell would I shop at Nordstrom? This is half the price right here. So I think and that’s how you market.
This is.
It and it’s. Hard to delineate those things. So I think the segment 3, we can do a nice conversation and just market because I have a couple of ideas, tips to focus on your marketing.
And I and I went through some of that. And, you know, on the belgard side of things and you know, we talked took on ancillary products and then we started selling some of the you know the consumables you know for as far as treatment and then things like that. And it I I live. Was that it was, you know, exponential, the amount of service issues when you start getting into those consumable type items, but it can be very profitable.
It’s a great it’s a a great business case to try to, you know, put it on the white Board and go what are the, what are the benefits and where the pitfalls, it’s very similar to Sam’s in Costco because. You, all of us who shop at either one of those places? No. If I don’t like it, all I got to do, take it back. I don’t. Have to explain anything so the. Girl’s going to be under that umbrella. So is that. Is that something that we’re prepared to handle?
If people so before we go to the break, tell people today if they want to learn a little bit more, want to find out about gather girls, where can they find them? Where do they go, whether it’s website or otherwise. So great after a week or so, I figure you guys are going to get him out on the yard out there so they could see him at the Braves game.
Just like that, I don’t even wanna tell you. I don’t wanna tell you what that costs. I’m gonna tell you what the Braves were charged for that.
John. Right. So the simplest answer is gathergrills.com is the website and then all the social stuff is gather grills. So if you want to see more of how normal people are using it and a lot of just unpolished stuff, go to the Facebook and Instagram. If you want to see you know, the more polished pricing and all that. Stuff go to the website.
The other girls with theness.com.
Didn’t ask. Thank you for clarifying.
- Yeah. Just make sure you know to you want to show up in some, you know, Ukrainian website or something that.
You might need a fourth wife. You never know.
You know.
You never, you never.
You know, in my social life, right?
You never. You never know. You never know. This guy threw. He threw his back out of hernia, doing some dirty deeds. You never. You never know what this guy throws his back out doing some. Some of The Dirty.
Well, if I. Had only been around the grill that afternoon, I might have been a better out in a.
Ohh, you let yourself on fire.
Better spot, but I’m more curious to listen to the podcast.
Well, now you know.
Now than this stuff, hey.
Well, with that, we’re going to go to break because we’ll come back and.
Thank God. Thank God.
We’re going to. Get we’re going to get into some marketing plans for the other girls. You’re listening to the marketing Mad Men on. The extra 106.3 we’ll be right back. All right. Wonderful. So, chip, why don’t you jot down to bulls?
Points just like like I’m going to start with brand marketing versus performance marketing just to make sure those two are delineated. So why don’t you think of two talking points and we’ll just kind of rattle back and forth and some ideas of just marketing ideas. I think it’ll be a good case study.
- Well and and so some of my experience, I’ll bring this up is. You know, where do you want product placement and that can be, you know, going back to trade show sponsorship, things of that nature, so. We’ll talk to that.
And I I will say if if it’s worth considering or going through. But one of the things about. Product it’s so easy for us. When I was talking about compared to 3rd party entertainment, what I view as third party is your phone, your computer. You know, nothing wrong. Nothing wrong with consuming media, but it’s it’s very easy to consume media at the expense of I don’t have. I don’t have a clue how to cook a steak or or whatever.
Yeah. Yeah.
So we’re trying to get people leaning in that direction because once they learn it, I mean for anybody, it’s it’s what Big Green Egg that did such a good job with. It is once you. Got into it and your friends got into it. You’re into it now you’re in.
The club, because there’s different ways.
Well, you know, I I have a good how. To start, to start that conversation. So bring it back and I will start that thing to talk about is how that is getting becoming a very crowded marketplace and everybody. All that COVID and they’re all trying to get into that experiential, you know, spend time away from the phones space. Yeah. So how do you manage that? That it’s such a crowded space that will be the first point is how do you avoid, you know, those those? Pitfalls of it’s very sorry I got it right.
Welcome back to the marketing Mad Men Trip Trail by Nick Constantine here with Judge Strange of gather grills and we’ll spend the next 9 minutes talking about some ideas, marketing ideas for you as you getting this kind of a view of how the gather gross product portfolio is expanding.
And then you’re gonna tell me whose ideas are better trips. Are I, Aaron? You’re in here, too. You’re gonna. You’re gonna judge this. Awesome. Well, let’s so let’s let’s hit one because it’s gonna be important when we can go a little longer if we want to. So one of the things. That a lot of people tend to do is think about the right now and they don’t look down the road. And one of the things COVID force is a lot of people are talking about outdoor lifestyle and they’re talking about let’s disconnect, let’s disconnect from the phones and I do see the opportunity here for the experiential part. Cooking becomes something everybody does together. The kids are growing. Everyone’s grilling. My concern is everybody’s flooding that same space at the same time. How do you differentiate yourself in such a crowded marketplace?
That was a big question. I need an answer to that right.
You don’t need one, just something to. Think about if you could. You. Let’s talk through it. But it’s it’s really important cause everyone always there’s huge opportunity now. Yeah, right. But the, the COVID allure and all the stuff that happened. And what happened after it could very well kind of wind off and kids wanna slap their heads back in front of a phone, cause a new game or a new social media mechanisms out. So I’m just making sure that, you know. And and what you’re doing, because if it requires a pivot sometimes, how do you pivot away?
From it also. So our answer in two ways there. There’s the food version of experiential, and then there’s the pickleball fad. And the other things that people are doing. Doing that, did we call it a fad? After our episode? I think we called those FAD, right? We ended with that. OK, maybe I maybe I offended a lot of people I.
We probably did. Yeah. I think we did.
We, but I think.
We agree, we agree, we agree it’s it’s it’s already winded down. They’ve they’ve merged like 3 leagues already. It’s already winded down so.
I played. Much to go for the record, I played pickleball last night and it was a ton of fun, but in the cooking space, everybody’s got to. Eat somewhere every day for the most part, and the unique thing about our product is the only product on the market. That has the spinning technology, which is patented, and it’s the only one that has the table, and in in the form that it does. So there’s there are a lot of other products that, I mean smoking on a trigger or do. There’s so many things you can do on eggs and triggers and super cool gas grills with the they’ve got the Sears. Fiction. There’s a lot of stuff that people have done, but there’s nothing. Like it? That’s on the market.
So so my my advice then is number one stay authentic. So when you go back to how you’re going to promote that right and the you know, getting together and getting away, be authentic. Pick three, top five, you know, of the types of customers who income, personas wherever you want. And focus on those. And of those, there’s probably 3 core, right? It’s the guys getting around the the girl together. It’s the family, whatever and maybe experimental one, but keep it tight, right? But stay authentic to which are don’t. Don’t get too far out there.
Yeah, I like that one. I think another one and I think it’ll help with one of the issues you brought up. So this was our old Yelp thing. And remember, when yelp.com first came out, was the first real place where you go and just find out what was going on the neighborhood. They did these parties. Everyone get to. Either find a way to get a community manager and what I mean by Community manager, somebody that responds to all the social media, the complaints, the honest things, somebody who it’s a barrier of defense. Hey, if anything goes wrong before you return it, call the community manager. They maybe to help will help you. And that person can weed out what’s a real complaint and we’re just somebody who doesn’t know how to use it and somebody who’s skilled in the face of the company could be you for now, could be AI at some point.
But because you’re trying and you’re such a high end product. There’s got to be something better than a customer service line, like a community manager’s job is to answer all those posts. Any negative views? Why was it negative? Let’s work through this. It is underutilized and in the right instances. And in this instance, I think it would be really a powerful way to make them feel like they get concierge service, which most of these companies, the ones that you’re starting to sell out of China at Lowe’s. Are never offering. Sure you call those how long you think take to get a hold of somebody. It means it’s not happening. So a community. Where even the allure of it, someone who’s paid over hours in the Philippines to just answer messages over there, even responding back to people, if you get a response back, you are that less likely to really complain just by getting a response back. So I think that’s a great tactic.
And if you don’t get the response, then it starts to escalate and.
It escalates and you have escalation system and you walk it through and it’s the system I hate to say it is more than the person important than the person. People are a place. Well, people leave jobs every freaking 6 minutes. Apparently in this world. So the systems are more important, but some sort of community or concierge service and make people feel like the price is justified will go a long way.
Then it creates the negatives. The other one I go back to is a little bit and I’m going to call it product placement, but. It’s. Exposure and you know you you’re probably already doing a little bit of it, but you can probably pick every weekend somewhere to go home, show this, that or the other. And you know again I go back to the the Bogart days and one of the things we did. That we did real well. As we became the premier exclusive sponsor for the Philadelphia Flower. The show, right, so we did not do as many. We picked the ones that had the right people that were going to be there from numbers from, you know, influencers, things of that nature. And then we built the whole campaign around it and I think. I think the key is some people will try to be everywhere and just go and and all that. And I think sometimes think through where you can have an impactful. Product placement. Experiential. You know whether you’re a sponsor, whether you’re getting someone else’s booth, maybe you don’t have your own booth, but you become part of a backyard display, and then you’re, you know, you’re providing the cooking. You bring a chef in with you. You know, those type of there’s a lot of ways to look at things like that and get a lot more eyeballs. Then doing every Saturday at the show that show.
Absolutely. Yeah, love it. So I think this will probably close us out. So one of the things and this is just in general these days delineate your brand marketing from your performance marketing. You’re at the point you’re profitable, but now you got to go sell grills, that’s performance marketing. What are you doing to sell those grills? But ultimately, if you’re going to be known and sell 20 years from now, you need a brand and it is the hardest part now. And so it being green. We did a great job at, but their competitors came in, they took their foot off the gas for brand marketing and now they are commodity just like everyone else. There’s no difference between the Komodo Joe. They lost their brand. Your presence so delineate where are you spending your time on brand marketing performance marketing. The hardest part is what metrics are you using to gauge how well your brand marketing is working? It’s unanswerable. Everyone tried to give me an answer. I like Google trends. Google Trends will see how many people in the world are Googling for the name of your company and if you’re seeing that steadily increase, that means the brand is out there.
Hmm.
I think social media does a decent job, but I think the social media is a little bit rigged to people who pay money to social media. The organic concept of social media is gone, but make sure that there is a clear delineation between brand, marketing, performance, marketing and one cannot suffer the expense of the other because what happens is. That’s when all of a sudden you start making ancillary rubs and lines because your brand marketing has gone down.
And I would say if if your goal if you do want to keep adding accessories, adding different products. And you do stay with the direct to consumer model. What can you do as a ongoing touch point that really hits to the brand marketing that Nick’s talking about? And it can be information. It might be an occasional gift or whatever, but how do you get people that you’ve already bought your grills, and how do you keep them thinking about you?
- Competition. What if you what if you invited people who had the grills into you? Put 6 grills out and you had a competition and you rated it and that’s.
What’s that? Or, but it’s sending them or so maybe, maybe. Maybe there is just a.
Setting them something 11.
You know a cleaning solution for the grill or something that at at the one year anniversary of their purchase you send to thank them. I mean those are other things that we used to utilize and do but it it works on the brand side to Nick’s point. And then if you do eventually want to sell other things to them, they’re thinking about you versus going.
Yeah. I I will throw this out there just for everybody. The Harvard Business Review just did an awesome article about Starbucks and pretty much how they bought, how bad they botched it, how bad they botched the brand, and the best example is used to go. There used to be a coupon, used a guy or girl of.
Yeah.
Course, but they would write a little 🙂 with your name on the coffee. Now it’s a freaking receipt printed. It’s lost the entire the entire thought of what Starbucks was is gone, because all they care about is having it everywhere. They don’t care about the interaction experience, and the brand has completely been diminished. Don’t let that happen.
I was labeled. Yeah, yeah. And one thing we want to do that those are great suggestions and because it’s so easy for it to, it’s so easy. To lose that because it takes intentionality, it takes effort, and you can’t. You can’t use a system to do it. It’s got to have a human. Touch to it.
It’s the instinct and a I can’t do that and all that stuff. And it is a human touch, which.
Yeah. Is so it’s so hard. So one of the things we want to do is we’re gonna start in Atlanta, but we’re gonna be offering these cooking classes where at our facility we can have two to 300 people. Wow. And we’re going to have a chef that knows how to use the grill, providing really good quality product.
Yes.
But everybody’s going to be renting a grill for the night. And even if people don’t come, it’s the fact that they have an opportunity to come. That’s.
For sure it’s like a cookie.
Demo. Yeah, love it. Testing. I this has been fantastic. Judge Strange, we’ve gathered grills. Thanks for joining us. And we, we wish you this and we’ll be following. Kind of how things progress. And you’ve been listening to the marketing amendment on extra Window 6.3. We’ll see you next week.
Awesome, easy breezy. Awesome. That’s fun to do that at the end to kind.
Nice work guys.
Yeah.
Of. Have like a. Yeah, that was great. You, I.
Love that. Yeah, OK. I’m not going to say who won it. Was just.
You guys have to you you guys have to come out and experience it because it’s.
Yeah, with.
It’s, you know, site one landscaping. Yep. We’re not working with them. No, we’re not working with them. But I know who they are. If you need to know the category head for hardscaping. Yeah. Used to work with them. You.
OK, OK.
Customer of ours too. But he came from the big company.
I always.
They’re right up there, right up the road. You know, they’re. On themselves so.
Really. OK.
I always like it and so the hardest thing is people don’t understand the timing of the food, right? Because everything you want to say at the same time. So how do you like? And then I always heard that’s why pie is so expensive because you have to time everything perfectly. Taste like if you cook one piece of seafood too much, it is atrocious. And they usually do it on a pot about the same.
Right.
So.
