A Spa Survived COVID, a Fire and Chemo by Telling Customers the Truth

Happy Saturday. Welcome to the Marketing MadMen. Nick Constantino here live from The Battery. We are getting ready for spring. We are getting ready for Braves baseball. It's an exciting time. And you know what? Atlanta is booming. And today I have Julie Stewart, the owner of Utopia Foot and Shoulder Massage Spa. But there's so much more to it, and she's got a hell of a story, and we're going to talk through it. So Julie, how are you?

I'm good. Thank you for having me.

Oh, it's a pleasure to have you. So before we get to the boom of Atlanta, and we were talking about Grant Park earlier and just what that part of town has become, give some context. I'm going to set you up as a small business owner with a marketing background who has overcome a crapload of adversity to put herself and her business in a position to succeed. Is that relatively accurate?

That is accurate.

100%. Good. So set that scene up. Walk us through the past couple of years, what you've overcome, how marketing plays in there, and then I'll set us up for a great conversation on the city of Atlanta and how we can help some small businesses out.

I'll actually start with how Utopia was born. I've worked in marketing since 1999, but there was a part of me that had the entrepreneurial spirit, and I thought, there's something I have to do. So I gave myself a five-year deadline, and that was to either create something or invent something or open a business. And I went through many ideas. I would wake up in the middle of the night, and it was literally close to five years, and it finally hit me. I was going to a location that's very similar to mine, and I found it to be my outlet. I could stop in for an hour, get a massage, turn my phone off, step away from work, step away from the kids. And it was affordable. It was just the best experience that kept me going, and I did it every couple of weeks. So I finally, I say, got the nerve to do it, because I'm pretty conservative financially. I wanted to make sure I wasn't making any mistakes. So I finally decided to do this. I found a location and we started the build out. The build out takes forever.

Especially in Atlanta. I mean, anytime someone tells me. I had a couple of buddies who were trying to open pickleball locations, and they were like, June of last year. I'm like, I bet February. It's still not open yet, by the way. So yeah, that's just another one.

Yeah, permitting is really hard.

Isn't it odd that we're in a red state? Supposed to be so easy and open for business, but somehow in this one vertical, it is impossible to get anything done.

Impossible.

Which just means that you didn't pay off the right people enough money to justify making it faster.

You're exactly right.

Okay, keep on going.

Yeah, you're exactly right. We're on the same page. So I spent eight months, and finally get the location where it's ready to open. I get my business license March 20th, 2020. So what happens?

Yep, we remember that fondly. COVID happened and came like a freaking bullet and just knocked everything over.

Right. So I have this business I've worked on, that I've invested in, and spent eight months building it out, and I can't open my business. And that's just a slap in the face, especially in a business where you're touching people, right?

So, to be fair, Governor Kemp did allow reopening of bowling alleys first, so you know that one made a complete amount of sense. It just makes natural sense. Maybe you could do foot massages only first, just feet touching. I mean, there were ways. But yes, that is not an easy way to get a business license, to be followed by the whole world shutting down.

Exactly. So I had to wait until May 19th, when Governor Kemp allowed spas and gyms to reopen. So now I'm sitting here with all these employees who have been waiting to work, and I have to open a brand new business in the middle of COVID.

With people in a relatively liberal, risk averse part of town. Because if you were doing that up here, I came to work every day. People were pretending this thing didn't even exist. There were parts of town that were so different. That's probably something people don't understand about Atlanta. The journey from Grant Park to Alpharetta is like you went 6,000 miles. You went from a place where they were wearing masks, and it's very liberal leaning and big government, to Alpharetta, where it's like, this thing is fake, don't worry about it. So you were not only doing that, but you were doing it in probably the most cautious part of town, which makes it that much harder.

Exactly. So we opened, and this is where the marketing comes in. You've got to figure out, how do I make people feel comfortable? How do I get them to try me? Because even though we've been in the community for a while and we know a lot of people, that didn't matter. So we put in new HVAC systems with purifiers, and promoted that. We wore masks, of course. We promoted how much we cleaned the spa, and why we would do deep cleans every single day.

And those are all expenses also. So let's pile that on top of it. Those are not inexpensive things to do, especially at that time, when everyone was trying to do them. The supply and demand curve was all wacky. So that makes it even harder.

Exactly. So we're learning how to run a business in the middle of COVID. Also, I was like, I'm not going to let this knock me down. I will figure out a way to make it happen. Some things we did, which are kind of funny: at nighttime, I would take my family and we would go for a walk, because people were still in their houses. I had no problem putting mailers in mailboxes, even though I didn't have a stamp on them. But you know what? I did it. I'm like, I have to do what I have to do right now. And this is the least of anybody's worries.

Sure. The only thing that's working there is your manpower and your sanity from having to go house to house.

Yes, I went into survival mode. I continued to promote the message on the website, through social media, through email, and we took it from there. So by the end of the year, it was a struggle, but we made it through the year, and I felt like, you know what, we're going to make it. And then another year rolls around. We're able to cut back, not wearing masks, not having to deep clean every day. And then the business just started to grow from there and pick up.

Okay. Yeah. A couple of things here. First off, it is a missing part of society, right? You're either going to a hotel and spending $600 to get into a spa, or you're going to a corner spa, which is seedy as can be. You get put down on a chair and it's just the wrong situation. So ironically, me and my wife did a little staycation. We were downtown, Midtown, and I was looking for exactly that. And it was impossible to find. It's impossible to find a community place where you just go in, maybe a sauna, just a quick spritz and a couple of things. It's not easy to find. So I think one, you found a part of a market that had an opportunity and an opening. I think it lends itself well to the neighborhood you were in, because it's a very community oriented neighborhood. And I think you opened something that was of need. Now, COVID was a curveball. So were you thinking to yourself while that was going on, hey, if I get through this, I can get through anything? Or were you just, oh my goodness, we need to survive tomorrow, and then the next day, and the next day?

No, I knew I was going to get through it. I mean, there wasn't an option. My motto is you just keep standing and keep pushing through. Everybody tells you, you're the strongest person I know. Well, you know what? Maybe so, but that's what it takes. If you roll over and play dead, then your business and your investment are going to roll over and play dead. It wasn't going to happen.

And your family and the community, and it's far reaching. Okay, so you've set us up for half of the story. Let's keep going and talk about the next couple of kicks that you got. That will set us up to give some good advice to businesses on how to overcome issues, because some of the issues that I think I have every day, you've already made seem small, and I think you're about to make them seem smaller. So give us the rest of the story.

Right, so there's more to the story. Fast forward to 2022. The business is growing, it's starting to thrive, and it's growing alongside businesses getting back on the scene after COVID, and people are starting to visit. Everything's good, we're kind of past that. And then in August, I wake up at like 8 o'clock in the morning to all of these text messages from the alarm company that something was wrong at the spa. I immediately look at the cameras and I think, I bet somebody has broken in. And the cameras are dark, I can't see anything. I start calling back and I hear there is a fire. So I jump up. And I guess now I can say, at the time I was going through chemo for breast cancer and was in the middle of that journey. And at the time, my family actually had COVID, and I was staying in a friend's guest house. So I was not home. I call my husband.

Chemo, you're already weakened. You can't be around COVID, another thing. That's just, oh my God.

Exactly. So I call my husband. Of course, he's still in bed. It's Sunday morning. I don't know that I've ever driven so fast to get there, but I got there, still in my pajamas, and I pull up and there's literally 23 fire trucks. And that's not an exaggerated number, because my spa is in a shopping center. So there's the risk of the shopping center blowing up, catching on fire. So they have to call.

Probably some gas lines, who knows what's there.

Exactly. So they have to call everyone in, and they wouldn't let me through because the roads were blocked. So I had to circle around, and I pull up, and the whole place had been destroyed. And of course my first question is, what happened and why? And the conclusion I got was spontaneous combustion.

That seems completely reasonable. It happens all the time. Things spontaneously blow up all the time. It sounds completely reasonable. So with a straight face, they told you that it just spontaneously decided to combust.

And without a straight face, I looked at them like they had four heads.

Did this pass to any of the other buildings? Was it just yours?

Just mine.

Wow.

I mean, the smoke damaged the stores next to me a little bit, but overall it was just mine, and it was completely destroyed.

Wow.

Yes. So how spontaneous combustion works is, when you have towels that have oils in them, even though you wash the towels, when they're stacked, they don't even have to be hot. They can combust. I don't buy the story, to be honest.

But you need something to cause the combustion. They can't just decide to blow up at room temperature. That's impossible.

Exactly.

So, okay. Everybody on earth has towels with oils on them. There are flammable towels in every house in America. So they're saying you should have been riding a shark while getting struck by lightning, by the odds of what had just happened.

Exactly.

Okay. That sounds awesome. So to frame this: open during COVID. We're already dealing with a really hard thing in breast cancer and chemo. And then the building you are inhabiting spontaneously combusted based on residual oils in towels.

Exactly.

Do we have that pretty well? All right, so now you have the story set up of how to overcome adversity, and how I look at myself in the mirror and realize my life ain't that freaking hard. So when we get back from the break, let's keep this going, but let's also give some advice and pointers on how we overcome these things and how to start a business. Because I bet you there are countless people out there who are thinking about starting a business and don't have the same ambitions that you do and are not able to overcome these things. So when we get back, we'll continue this conversation. We are with Julie Stewart, the owner of Utopia Foot and Shoulder Massage Spa, and you're listening to the Marketing MadMen. We'll be right back.

Welcome back to the Marketing MadMen. We're continuing our conversation with Julie Stewart, the owner of Utopia Foot and Shoulder Massage Spa. And pretty much we just hit that holy [bleep] moment. You were looking at it before the cops got there, just knowing that this is on fire. Then you hear that it spontaneously combusted. Meanwhile, the whole family has COVID and you are on chemo for breast cancer. So that's that moment. What was going through your head at that moment, and tell us about the next couple of days, because a lot of times that's when people give up. It just becomes overwhelming and you give up. Talk about what that moment was like for you and what the next couple of days were like for you.

Okay, so that moment was definitely very surreal. It's hard to describe. It's a hit in the face. It knocks you down and you're like, what do I do next? Believe it or not, one of the first things I needed to do was take care of the employees, because I've invested in the employees, and that's how I keep my business running, by having employees that will work for you and do well for you. So I had to take care of the employees, and I immediately started a GoFundMe for them, just a quick one, to give them an extra paycheck until I could get things sorted with insurance. So then the next kicker is insurance. I had used a local agent who did not understand commercial business, and this was my first time opening a business. So this is something to learn: definitely do your due diligence, take everything to the next level, run everything by an attorney, because this agent didn't have my coverage set up correctly. So although my contents were covered, the build out was not covered.

Oh my goodness.

In the insurance. So I had to go through fighting with insurance. I had all kinds of documentation, I was able to prove it, and they ended up having to pay. But that took about three or four months to go through. Some of my employees were able to get paid throughout the process, the ones that are on payroll. The contractors, which are the therapists, were not.

Yeah, okay. So now you have insurance on top of this. I have to imagine that space is ripe with bad actors who, whether it be ignorance or naivety or they're just horrible people, are underinsuring or not insuring the right way. So you had all that. You said that was a three or four month process just for insurance?

It was.

Okay. So again, what is going through your head now? How are you getting up and continuing to do this? You're again fighting chemo. How are you getting up to fight through this? Is it just, I've got to win? Is it, what is wrong with these people, this is something I have to fix? Is it my employees? Is it, I put so much time into it? What is keeping you moving at this point?

I had to make sure that my employees were taken care of. That was definitely very important. But I also just knew I had to get the mindset of, we'll just get through it. It's another bump in the road. We've had many of them, and we're going to push through, and it will be fine. I just made the decision to fight through and get the place open as fast as I could. However, with the city of Atlanta, of course, with permitting, that was not the case again. It took a year to reopen the business.

Okay, so now we're fast forward. We are relatively recent. End of '22, early '23, somewhere in there.

August of 2023.

August of '23. Okay, so that is very recent. We're in March of '24 right now. So you're within six months, seven months of that window. So you have overcome all of that. August '23, you open. Do you breathe a sigh of relief, or are you like, oh my God, this is too good to be true, a unicorn is going to come down and drop a bomb on my building somehow? What's going through your head now?

It was a sigh of relief, definitely, to get the spa back open and get it running. What I found is that throughout the year, I had more loyal customers than I even realized I had. What I did was, throughout the whole year, I was communicating with all the clients through email, and I was very candid. I feel like people like to relate to someone, they like to understand your story, and they buy into a story. So I was very clear, communicating: this is where I am in the process, this is where I am with my health, and you know what? We're going to be back, and we're going to be bigger and better than we were before. I saw it as an opportunity. It's like when you build a house. You build a house one time, and the second time you build a house, you realize all the things you wanted in the house that you didn't have before. So I was able to make a lot of changes in the build out and the process to make it a better place to visit, to be honest.

Yeah, well, and that was you telling yourself there's some good that comes out of it, because there's not much good that comes out of it. Having to do a soft reset and rebuild the parameters based on what you didn't know you wanted is some silver lining, I guess, if you want. All right. So now that we have the story laid out, I'm going to ask you a couple of questions, because I'm curious, and I think this pertains to a lot of businesses. First and foremost, what do you think you did to create such a loyal base of followers? Because when businesses open nowadays, unfortunately, we're so overrun by private equity and corporations that couldn't care less about the story or the community. They say they do. They have big letters that say they care, but they do nothing to care. So what do you believe your strengths were that allowed you to connect? Because this is a long process, from 2020 to August of '23, for people to roll with you through all of this. That's patience, that's trust. Talk about what you did, and what advice you have for people to build that kind of connection with their customers.

I believe there are several things. One of the first things is customer service. The one thing I tell the people who work at the front desk is, when someone walks in the door, treat them like they're walking into your house. Talk to them like you've known them forever. Recognize them if they're regular clients of ours. Be able to talk through it if there's an issue. Remember, they're coming in here because they're stressed out. They're coming to get a massage. Be able to find a solution. Never fight back. I also believe I had to make sure I was providing a good service for everyone, so I'm pretty picky about the therapists that we have. I make sure everything's consistent. And I also make sure I have a clean spa, because I do believe people are attracted to a place that looks clean. There are so many places similar to mine where you walk in and they're nasty. So those are kind of the fundamentals.

And how do you connect with your customers? Why were they so loyal to you?

Okay. So I've positioned myself in the community as, I'm here to support the community. I'm involved in different sponsorships for the schools and different organizations within Grant Park and the surrounding areas. I really just put myself out there and connect. I am definitely a networker. I'm not afraid to wear my business on my sleeve, so you know that this is what I do and this is where you need to go, and I'm always promoting the business. And I just think the style of communication I took, being upfront and honest, is what people responded to. They tell me now, I appreciate that you did that.

Yeah, and again, that authenticity is missing in a lot of places. One of the big problems is everyone tries to fake it. Consumers have gotten dumber at some things, unfortunately, but they've gotten smarter, and they're able to spot when people are faking it. I don't think the shtick is going to wear as long as people think it is. And once you package that with super high prices and decreased customer service, there is going to be a revolt by the consumers who should be shopping. So anyway, let's put that aside. Now, two-part question. Number one, you said what was really important there was the employees. How do you motivate your employees to see your vision, because they are the conduit to the consumer? What did you do to get lucky and get such great employees? How did you find them? Talk about your employees and why they're so important.

So an interesting fact is that all of my employees came back to me after the fire, except a couple who had moved away, and that's about 15 employees. I think they follow me because I'm always reading the books, like Leaders Eat Last. I'm always trying to figure it out. So my approach with the employees is: I'm on your side. I'm here to help you grow. I'm here to help you make money. I am here to listen to your problems. And I promote a very healthy work environment.

Yeah, that's exhausting. I have a team of 12 people, and when it comes to their problems, one, understanding how different people are is really, really hard. And two, just because you show all these characteristics and qualities doesn't mean they will. It is really hard to lead and to motivate, the bigger the staff is and the more different people are, socioeconomic and different things. So that in itself is exhausting. Talk about how gratifying it was to see that you put all that work in, and all those employees returned that favor and followed you through all this.

It was amazing. Still to this day, I can't believe it. Give me a second on that. Let me think. I really can't put into words how grateful I am that they came back to me, to be honest.

Did you realize it? When they were back here, were you like, my goodness, this has paid off, even though I've been through all this? Because if those people come back, they are the way to the customers, so the customers are likely to come back. Everyone says, we came back stronger, but you're coming back stronger with the same group of people, which very rarely happens.

Right. So when they came back, I also offered them an incentive to come back, to show that I was thankful they were there. So they all got a nice bonus from me. That also promotes the happiness of the employee. And I am always looking for an incentive for them while they're there. If they get a good review, I incentivize them. If they help me do something, if they go above and beyond. So I'm always taking care of them. I believe in that.

Yeah, and I think those two things have to go hand in hand, right? You can't just motivate somebody with money, and you can't just motivate someone with positivity and being on their side. It's the combination of the two. Let's be honest. Most people get to a point in their business career where they can just have that honest conversation, like, hey, pay me, that's what's going to help, let's make this easy. So, an update on chemo and cancer. Where are you? Are we out of that dark time?

We are pretty much out of that dark time. That was an interesting year. I did have a double mastectomy. I went through three months of chemo and an additional nine months of other infusions. That all ended in the summer of 2023, and my health is good now. Of course, I still have to have checkups, but I've worked hard to get myself back mentally and physically. And I feel great, other than some side effects from the chemo. You all hear about them, and they're not great. That's just what comes along with helping you get rid of the C, as I call it.

Yeah, well, look, I think cancer is one of those things that touches almost everybody. I would say everybody, all the time. And until you go through it with someone very close to you, that's when it becomes real. My opinions on society, and what we are doing to ourselves, and what society is doing to us to cause these things, aside, you overcame it. So I'm going to ask you an odd question. You don't have to answer if you don't want to. Are you a religious person?

I am a religious person.

Did you end all this and think, I was tested, I've made it out, and now I'm going to be rewarded? Did you feel that going through your head? Because you ended chemo right about when the spa reopened. So it was almost that my goodness point, and you got to that point. It's not necessarily which God, but you were like, my God, I made it through all this. I was tested and I made it through. Did that go through your head at all?

Most definitely. I feel like hard work pays off. I feel like going through adversity pays off. I feel like it's all about how you present yourself. You can turn it into a story of woe is me and feel sorry for yourself. I never asked for that or wanted that. I had a tremendous number of people who stepped up to the plate to help me out during that time, and I couldn't even believe how many people did. But I go with the same theme: you have to just keep standing. During the cancer time, I had a blog that I was writing, and it was called [bleep]. That's how I felt at the time. I'm like, I don't have time for this. And I think the subtitle of it was, get out of my way.

Yeah.

Here I am.

That's amazing. And look, you've overcome so much. Just in this story, congratulations on where you've gotten and what you've overcome. Let's use this as a way to talk to business owners. Let's start back at the beginning. Okay, I see the opportunity. I've been waiting five years with all these ideas. This is what I'm going to open. So what advice do you give to people who are thinking about doing what you did, and what did you have to tell yourself to finally make that leap of faith?

I would say running a business is not easy. There are a lot of moving parts, and you have to know that it's not always going to go smoothly. My example of the insurance: I thought I was doing my due diligence, but I didn't. I thought I understood. I expected the experts to. I'm hiring you, so you are telling me what I need to have, and I didn't have it. I would say you always have to double check every single thing that you are doing. You also have to have budget available in the event.

And then some. Add 10% on whatever you have.

It's more like 30%.

Throw 30% on top of it, and just assume that at the very least you spend 15 of it, and you get 15% of profit for the first time in your life.

Exactly. You always have to plan ahead in case something unexpected pops up, because the unexpected is definitely going to pop up. You don't know how it will show its face, but it will pop up. However, on the other side of that, there's joy. I never knew when I opened this business how happy it would make me to see that I'm making other people happy, and that I'm actually providing a good service of self-care for people. But you just have to keep pushing through. Don't let it get you down. Keep standing, and just realize that any time something happens, it is not the end of the world. It's just a little season. You push through, and you will probably come out on the other side. But don't ever go into the woe is me, feeling sorry for yourself and being in the dumps. I always tell myself, when something bad happens, I will allow myself to crawl in a hole for a couple of days, get it all out, and then I come back fighting.

Everybody grieves, everyone goes through these things differently, and everyone has different escapes. It's good advice to have that escape. But when that escape turns into excuses and turns into future problems, you have to be clear on that. Because you're right: I'd complain, but nobody's going to listen anyway. And if they are going to listen, they've got their own problems. So let's talk about marketing now. You had a marketing background. How did marketing help you through this? It sounds like that clear communication, which is the core of all marketing and what so many people get wrong, was definitely one. What else from your marketing background helped you as you were going through this?

There's so much. I actually listened to your podcast, The Myths of Digital Media.

Yep.

And I have to tell you, I've sent that to so many clients that I'm talking to.

I paid her to say that, by the way. There's no way she's really saying that.

No, I'm really saying that. Because everything that was said is exactly what I preach to clients. I have a lot of experience on the local side, and I believe that a lot of small businesses don't take marketing seriously and don't realize it is an investment. It is something that takes time, and you don't just spend $2,000 in a month and your business is flooded. I also believe in marketing as far as how you position yourself. The way I'm positioning myself is: I am affordable self-care. That is something everyone needs right now. We live in a world where we're all tired, we're all stressed, we're burning the candle at both ends, not getting enough sleep. And I'm a firm believer that you've got to find those outlets to relieve stress, whether for me that's spending time with friends or my family, or finding something that is exercise, or taking a minute for a massage. Because if you don't recharge and reboot yourself, then you're in trouble. So I take that angle with my marketing, and that's the message I tell: I have affordable self-care. You don't have to call somewhere and wait three weeks to get a massage and spend $150. You can typically get an appointment the same day, and you didn't spend a lot of money on it. So it's very important to me to position myself with exactly what I'm offering, and I make it easy for people.

Yeah, and I think that's another great part of marketing if you're good at it: value versus cost. Once you start going on price alone, you are a commodity, and you are just competing in a race to the bottom on price. When you talk about value, the value is, like you said, you're investing in yourself. And one of the things I think people have to understand: I'm not saying that when you're 22 years old you need to invest in yourself, right? Personally, it was about 30 before I had figured out so much stuff that it was time to start investing in myself. But investing in myself was teaching myself marketing, and how to market advertising for this show. Going and getting stretches and massages. You're doing those things because those things should be making you better. You see clearer. You get to a point where you realize there's a fog. Give up drinking for a month or two, and it's amazing how quickly the fog lifts and you can think clearly. So just like marketing has to be treated as an investment, this is part of that: invest in yourself. If you can invest in yourself and put time and effort and money into yourself with a clear vision, it will always be better. Again, that's a value proposition. You're not offering a service that there's a price on. You're offering a service that there is value in. And I think that's a really important thing to distinguish. So that's great. Talk about the business now. Hopefully the marketing's working, customers are coming, you're getting reviews. Talk about the business right now as we stand.

One other thing I wanted to add, though. I am definitely about trying to get into the customer's mind to help them understand what the experience is. So I definitely recommend that everyone really evaluate everything you have within your business. For me, it's gift cards, it's spa products, it's the experience. With my experience, we play on four of your five senses, with the sounds, the sights, the touch and everything. It's making sure you properly communicate exactly what your business does, so you know it's going to fill a gap that client needs. If you do that, you can draw them in. And once they come in, building on the customer service, I can keep a client.

Yep. Look, people know what they think they want, but they don't always know what they want. So if you can get in a customer's mind and get rid of those objections. Because again, we say it all the time: if I ask a business, hey, who is your ideal customer, that isn't necessarily the customer that's coming in or the best customer for them. That's just what they think it is in their head. One of the things that's really hard to do as a business owner is separate yourself from the entity. And it sounds like what you're trying to do is not worry about what's in it for you, but, hey, what is the customer thinking? And that helps. And I have to imagine one of the good things is you're dealing with a community of people. Look, it's hard. I live by Northlake. I'm not driving down to Grant Park for a massage. It's not happening. But you're in an area where most people are probably relatively similar minded. They're in a community with each other. So if, on average, 10 out of 15 people think alike, you could probably apply that to most people and get a good idea of what you're trying to do with the business. That's another important thing, just understanding. And you probably have so much more human contact with your audience. It's not e-commerce. You're not hiding behind a wall. You have direct contact. You see the smiles on their faces when they walk out, and what the pain points are. So how do you use social media?

So I have paid campaigns, and I'm very strategic about how I do this. I have one campaign that's all just the general services. I have a second campaign that is all about the specials. We have specials on Mondays and Wednesdays. And then I have a third campaign that's variable. It could be anything, depending on the month. I may pick something, whether it's, this is our most popular service, and take that angle, or it's Valentine's Day, depending on what's happening at the time. As far as organic social, I create a calendar every month, and I also have a list that covers everything I could potentially talk about for my business, whether it's the services, self-care in general, the products, gift cards, memberships, packages, the whole thing. And I pull from that. But I will also adapt. A couple of weekends ago, the weather dropped. It was what, 30 degrees. I have a photo of one of our warm, cozy blankets, and I put a spin on that: it's cold this weekend, it's warm in Utopia, come on in. So you have to adapt to what's happening at that specific time, which you can't project when you're making your monthly calendar.

Yeah, and that's so important if you have the ability to do it yourself, because a third-party agency is not going to have the idea to do a heated blanket when it's 30 degrees outside. And I'm not saying there's anything wrong with having a professional, because a lot of times you don't have the time, or your business is scaling and you need to scale. But in those instances, I always say, know enough to be dangerous, right? You have to understand the fundamentals of your business. It sounds like you have multiple revenue lines from products and services. They're different streams, which is important, and you treat them differently. So for example, your main campaign is different from your specials campaign, because your specials campaign is most likely to attract new customers. It's there to create the demand, as opposed to the other ones, which capitalize on the demand that's already out there, where people are looking for these things. Again, technical terms, complicated terms, but all part of that marketing thing. So through the next segment, when we come back, I want to hear what your plans are for the future and how marketing fits into all that. We'll recap this all and we will be on our way. We are having a great conversation with Julie Stewart about lots of things, mostly overcoming adversity. You've been listening to the Marketing MadMen, and we'll be right back.

Welcome back to the Marketing MadMen. We're finishing up our conversation with Julie Stewart, owner of Utopia Foot and Shoulder Massage Spa in Grant Park. By the way, one of my favorite parts of town. I genuinely enjoy it down there. I think whenever people come to Atlanta, it's very hard for them to understand the neighborhoodiness of Atlanta, because they think a big city means downtown. And here it's like, oh no, it doesn't work that way. There are pockets, and these pockets don't connect yet, but they're trying to get them to connect, and one day they'll connect. So I very much enjoy Grant Park. So we've done a good job of setting up, one, where this story started, and two, all the adversity you've overcome. For a recap: the business burned down by spontaneous combustion, you tried to open a business during COVID, and this was all while going through breast cancer and chemo. The kids had COVID. There was the pain of the town permitting, and the insurance agents were terrible. I think we're summing it up pretty well. But now all of a sudden, we're in a position where the business is rocking and rolling. Would the business be rocking and rolling the way it is if you had not overcome all that adversity? Who knows? But it's probably led you to make some smarter business decisions and run a more optimal business. So let's finish quickly with some of the other things you're doing in marketing now and some of the other trends you're seeing. And then I want to talk about where the future goes, because that's always the next fun step, talking about what happens next.

Okay, so yes, I said I would be back, I would be bigger and better, and we are. We've seen a lot of growth. People were showing up immediately. We opened in August, it's now March. Each month continues to grow, and in February we had 856 appointments. How about that?

Wow.

And it continues to grow, with a goal of 1,000 per month. Some things I'm going to be doing: promoting corporate wellness. We are going to start going into corporations when they're doing their wellness events. It will look like something more like your airport type massage, where you're bringing in the chairs that you sit in, so you can get quick back massages, head massages, arm massages. And also working with events. I'm working with a hotel downtown, and they're going to have a wellness room, and they'll have us come in on a regular basis. So I'm in the process of getting all of this built up and set up, so that I can take Utopia outside of Utopia and be a little more mobile. Part of that plan, and this is a good thing for the marketing side of it, is I always challenge myself each month to figure out how to target a new segment of people who could potentially be my customer. So over the month of March, I am getting into apartment complexes. We have so many right around the spa. I can get in there, I can do a 10 minute neck massage, tell them about my business, and they're going to come to me once they're comfortable with you. So I definitely challenge everybody to figure out, each month, what is one type of industry or one connection that I can get into? I've done this before with schools, because schools have moms there. So I will offer a discount over a month on certain days, because once I get you there, I can keep you there.

Yeah, I have to imagine sports fields where the kids are playing. Those are all parents who probably want to be involved in their kids' lives, which means they're exhausted and don't have time for sleep or wellness. I do have a tip for you. I think this might be a good idea when you're talking about corporate wellness. Again, the connection to mental health is just growing. When you go to do your corporate gigs, you should also do some public speaking about the journey and the adversity you've overcome. Because if you can talk about that story, hone that story and get it really good, that is a lot of value. And then you can say, now let me talk about the body side, and go into massages for people. That is what companies want. They want that two in one. They want that turnkey solution. And again, secretly, what they want is for their people to be like, oh damn, my life's not that bad, I haven't really had to deal with any of that stuff. So I bet you there's some value in there. Take a look into doing some speaking about what you've overcome, because that is contagious, and that's what companies want, and big companies want that. So now let's go to the future. Where are we going as a business? Are we opening more locations? Obviously we're going to have satellite branches everywhere. Well, you could have teams going out on the road. What does the future look like, and what do you expect from the next 10 years?

My expectation is to scale, for sure. I would like to open another location. I have plans to start making that happen this year. Of course, I get a little nervous, but I have to tell myself, I believe in it. You can do it. You've pushed through before. Why can't you do it again? So that is the next step. If I had my ultimate dream, it would move into a franchise model.

Okay. So where are you looking for your next location? In your dream, where would you be?

Sandy Springs, Brookhaven area.

Sandy Springs, Brookhaven, Dunwoody, in that area. Much closer to me, which is why I was asking, which is very nice to hear. Ironically, I have heard, and if you look, somehow the pace of price increases is hitting those areas worse than it is downtown, which is unbelievable to me. Things are more expensive in that corner than they are even in some parts of downtown, which is crazy. But again, there is a certain audience there that is different from the one you're going after. Kind of old money, new money, different age groups, lots of soccer moms up there, lots of self-care. So I think that's great. And then the franchise model. Franchise always scares me, because I always think you lose control of the core business, because you are relying on other people. And most of the time you're dealing with salespeople, and everyone loves to sell you on their vision. That doesn't mean they know how to execute their vision. So what worries you about franchising, and why do you think it might be the right angle?

Exactly what you just said. Because I believe each location has to have my energy in it. I put everything into having my energy in the customer service, the warm feel. People know they'll go around my front desk people to reach out to me to solve a problem. So that is definitely a concern. However, I just have this dream and this vision that this is what has to happen. To get there, it'll take all my nerve. We'll have to get through it, and hopefully get there soon.

Yeah. And again, I've just seen so many models where the companies always start with good intentions, then you get one or two bad franchise owners, or their books are not right, and that location closes, and it reflects poorly. So it is a very hard thing. But at the same time, if you have developed a strong enough brand, the brand usually prevails overall. So that's a marketing thing, right? How do I make this brand strong enough that the demand is there, and that the quality controls are there to allow other people to do it, which is no easy task. So what else have you got going on? Talk about some promotions and things you have coming up in the next couple of months that people can look out for.

I would like to add another thing I just thought of on the marketing side, when you have a small business or a local business, and this is something I'm working on right now: make sure you have a playbook in hand. That can coincide with a franchise later. The playbook needs to lay out, for your entire team, your staff, employees, everyone there: who's the owner, what's their role, everybody's role, exactly what they do, what your mission statement is, how you're going to get to your mission statement, and then how you solve problems. And then go into all the details: these are the guidelines, these are the common questions we get and how you answer them. This is our model and how we do it. So that is definitely something.

And this is a model for success. We have already achieved these things. So listen, dummy, because I'm telling you, this is your golden book. I also think one of the things businesses do a poor job of is thinking short-term. Short-term, mid-term, long-term: those are different, because you can't always solve a problem thinking short-term, because it might hurt you in the long run. So I think that's a good thing. We've got one minute left. Why don't you close us out, tell everyone where to find you, give that last pitch for the business, and hopefully you get some new customers.

Yes, absolutely. You can visit us online at utopiaatlanta.com. We are open seven days a week, 11 o'clock to 8 o'clock. And we have specials on Mondays and Wednesdays where you can bring a friend. It's an incredible deal. And once you come, I promise you will come back.

Yeah. And that's awesome. So where's the location? Give us the address and the whole rundown.

It is at 465 Boulevard, which is just off of I-20, in Grant Park.

And you've got plenty of room for people, with all the appointments you're trying to book. So, well, thank you very much, Julie. This has been a great conversation. Again, we're with Julie Stewart, the owner of Utopia Foot and Shoulder Massage Spa in Grant Park. And you have been listening to the Marketing MadMen on Xtra 106.3.