Access to Capital Runs the Economy, Not Politics

Lots of people claim to be exceptional. Few write books about doing so. Today, we interview Cassius Butts, who has held several government roles in the Small Business Administration and is currently an entrepreneur and a teacher at Morehouse College. Check out his book at CassiusButts.com or search for Exceptional: Being the Exception to the Rule online to check the book out. All that and more on today's episode of the Marketing MadMen.

They say marketing is a madman's game. So now we turn it over to the Marketing MadMen with Nick Constantino and Trip Jobe.

Happy Saturday. Welcome to the Marketing MadMen. Nick Constantino here and we have a great show. We got my boy here, Cassius Butts, and I'm going to introduce him. I was going to introduce him, but he's got so many damn qualifications and things he's accomplished that I ain't going to even try to read all that stuff. So Cassius, my man, first off, how you doing, brother?

I'm on top of the world, Nick. Glad to be here.

Good to have you. All right. So first give the quick rundown. Let's list all these things out. And then since we know each other so well, I'm going to start picking things apart and asking you random questions to see if I can throw you off.

First and foremost, I'm head of capital for Global Leader Group, and a partner there. We help large and small businesses with access to capital. I've been doing that for a few years now and enjoying it. I'm an equity partner there. We're based out of Salt Lake City, Utah. I have an office here in Atlanta, Georgia. I also have a chance to do something pretty cool with a company called Capital Fortune Business Advisors. We help folks to scale and get to that next level. I don't do the day-to-day on that. Someone else comes in and does that, and I'm glad she's running that ship. And like you said, one day a week now, I'm an adjunct professor.

There you go, man.

Yeah. There you go. I teach leadership and professional development. I really enjoy it. I mean, I feel like I learn more from them than they get from me. I don't know. I just learn about what's taking place in the world.

And we're going to get to that, because we actually got one of our interns over here at Dickey Broadcasting, Chloe, in here also. So I'm curious what they're teaching these kids these days. I'm curious what kind of problem solving they're getting. I'm seeing a little bit in real time now, but we will certainly get to that. Let's go back a little bit further. Let's just briefly talk a little bit about your upbringing, your college career, and then how you started working with the government, because that will bring us all full circle to a lot of the stuff we're going to be talking about.

Certainly. I'm from a family of entrepreneurs. My grandparents had their own construction business. My father was an engineer by trade. He worked for what is now Lockheed Martin, which then was Martin Marietta. My mom, she owned a daycare. She was in banking and she was an educator. She became an entrepreneur. And so for me, I got a chance to learn entrepreneurship as a kid.

Wow. Lots of different sides too. The engineering side, that's a lot of different parts.

Yeah. And sales, networking, the whole nine. I learned how to be uncomfortable as a kid.

Yeah.

Right. And so my brother and I, we started businesses, cutting grass, selling fruit drinks, the whole nine. I was born in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, finished high school in Orlando, Florida, and came to college in Atlanta, Georgia. And so for me, I got to see the best of what the world had to offer.

Very different places. Philly is one of my favorite places on earth, but if you've never been there, ain't nothing like it. The kind of grind and the grit and the hustle that they have in that place, and they're proud of Philly, right? And I'm not saying it's not a nice place, but I'm saying most people from other parts of the country go there and they're going to be a little off put by what Philly has to offer, but in such a good way. Second of all, you know, I grew up in New York my whole life. It's such a good food town. New York is so expensive. You can eat like a king in Philadelphia. There's BYOB places everywhere. I was at a Malaysian spot at 4 o'clock in the morning with food and BYOB in Philly. That's just the kind of stuff. But anyway, so, Morehouse for college.

Morehouse for college. And to your point, Nick, you love or hate Philly.

Yeah, exactly.

You love it or you hate it. Again, I went to college at Morehouse. I wanted to be an industrial organizational psychologist. Basically, I wanted to be the shrink inside the corporate setting.

Wow, at that young age. I thought my whole life, I just don't like what shrinks do, period. I've never wanted to be that. But now I'm so curious about the inner workings. Now that I'm in a leadership position, really all life is about is finding what motivates people. I think sociology only gets you so far. Knowing how people work together can only get you so far. What gets you the rest of the way is knowing real psychology and how to motivate individual people. And for me personally, the hardest part of my career now is finding those inner workings of people.

That's right.

Isn't it the hardest part? Because realistically, what I want is, yo, do it the way I do it, because that's what I'm comfortable with. But realistically, that is the opposite of how psychology works, and it's very hard to work. So I find it funny that at such a young age, you knew that's what you wanted to be. Has that influenced a lot of what you've done? Probably so. Even subconsciously. Maybe not, but.

My brother and I, we grew up watching television with my dad. We watched Columbo, Quincy, M.E. We watched the game shows. We watched all the things that showed what motivated people to do whatever they did. So for me, I was like, hey, how can I motivate people inside the workplace and be compensated and feel good about it? And that's how it really came about. I never figured that it would come to this point where I wrote a book called Exceptional about that, but I really kind of wanted to figure out what I can do with trying to influence people. I didn't know if that was going to be in a corporate setting, or in the pulpit, or somewhere else. Like, I don't know, singing in the bar, piano, just making people laugh. You got to understand, I grew up listening to everything from Barry Manilow to Earth, Wind and Fire. Think about psychology. Barry Manilow had the song that said, Doctor, my woman's coming home later today, could you maybe give me something, because the feeling's gone and I don't know how to get it back again. That was Barry Manilow. I learned that at 7. And I was like, oh, who's this guy talking to? And I asked my dad. He said, he's talking to a therapist.

Viagra didn't even exist yet.

So that's what he was asking for. He's trying to figure out his relationship. But why is he talking to him? It's because things are not going right. You got to talk to people about that. I said, I may be interested in doing that. That's how it came about.

And look, let's be clear, life is about relationships. Life is about rapport. And the easiest way to gain rapport is to find common ground and things in common. You have a similar upbringing to me: well traveled, a lot of places, a lot of different industries, a lot of interests, a lot of different types of music. And when people ask how to succeed at sales, the number one thing I say is diversify your background. The reason is because it's about finding something in common with someone. If you grew up in one place your whole life, did one thing, listened to one type of music, how easy is it going to be to find something in common with someone? That's not what people want to hear. No, man, the more things you've done, the more chance you have to find one thing that you relate to with somebody. All right, so let's talk about how you got into the government. You started in the Bush administration, you were with Obama, now you're statewide with Kemp. Talk a little bit about how you got into the government. And then I got some questions here, because I think that's a fascinating part, and hopefully you're still on your feet, because that was a long time ago, brother.

I'm reminded about it often. My grandfather, my dad's dad, actually ran for mayor of the city of Orlando in 1980.

Orlando is quite a different place in 1980, right? I mean, you're talking about it coming up. I don't think Epcot existed yet.

Yeah. In fact, my grandfather was responsible for the community engagement aspect with the city of Orlando and helping people to accept Disney into their backyards. Literally, he was that ambassador.

Wow. I wonder what he thinks of what's been going on recently with DeSantis trying to get them out of there. Once that presidential bid ended, DeSantis was like, oh, no, I'm just kidding, I like Disney again. How quick. Anyway, the hypocrisy.

But I saw my grandfather do it, and just watched him navigate, again asking my dad, what's grandpa doing? He's running for mayor. What's a mayor? Just going through all these questions. And so I saw what he did, and I was like, hey, that's pretty interesting. Even to move further with that, I just always thought I was in a position to influence people. I figured I had a superpower, so use it in the best way to make a positive impression. It's ordained. I mean, I grew up in the Catholic Church as a kid with my brother, then moved to Florida. We became, I guess, Baptist when football season was in place, as we went to church with my mom. At the Catholic Church, you're there for like 10 minutes and it's great. At the Baptist Church, you're there all day. So we would go to church with my mom.

I grew up Greek Orthodox and it was like 4 hours. Then you go to Sunday school. And I went with my wife once and I'm like, what, 45 minutes? This is a way better deal.

So I just said, hey, how can I influence people? And just seeing my parents work really hard and being entrepreneurs, and my grandparents, I loved it. I was like, I want to do that. And I just always figured it would be either in a corporate setting or behind someone's pulpit or something like that. I guess there was a different plan for me, Nick, as you mentioned, government. I was good at working with people, talking to folks, and folks here in the city of Atlanta said, hey, there's a calling on your life to help people get to where they want to be. I never really got involved in politics per se.

Yeah.

I got involved in the business aspect.

But remember, politics like this is a relatively new thing. When you were speaking about government back in the day, there was not this politics, there was not this divide. You just said it maybe perfectly; you might have read the script in advance. So let me ask you this. You worked for HUD, Housing and Urban Development. That is one of those things, unfortunately, that has been stigmatized and politicized, right? What it originally stood for was when they were building urban areas, and planning. When they were building, there were ways to plan and build and put certain resources in places. Okay. Now let's not forget what happened with redlining and the African-American communities and how they were devastated by this, and food deserts. I don't want to go into that, but I do want to say that the point of HUD is to make a functionally operational city.

That's right.

So talk about your role there, what you learned there, and some of what's happening now and why you think it's been so politicized. And we might go to the break on this one. This is a pretty intense question.

No, brother, it was an opportunity. I said, hey, I want to influence. And so there was an opportunity to apply for a Presidential Management Fellowship. I applied. 10,000 people applied, 400 were accepted nationally. And so I was accepted as a Presidential Management Fellow during the Bush administration, which means I got to be fast-tracked to learn every aspect within each department of HUD, knowing that at the end of that training period I would be in a position to lead it. And so I'm very proud about that. A lot of my grandfather's colleagues were folks who were also appointees in the Bush administration. So it just was a great time. And for me, I was like, okay, I really enjoy this. But to your point, it's been politicized. I came into HUD when Katrina happened. The regional administrator, his name was Bob Young, former mayor of the city of Augusta, said, Cassius, I need for you to help me and show me these different areas I haven't been to. And I said, okay, great. He said, one day I think you're going to be a regional administrator like me. I was like, yeah, you think so? He was the first one to call it. And so I was very proud to work with Mayor Young. We did a lot of great things at HUD. What we did was help get people in homes for the first time, but we could have done a lot better saying two things. Hey, today's not your day, get yourself together. And the second thing, do not accept that loan, because you need to learn how to actually use those funds before you actually accept them.

Yeah, there's two sides to the story. It's not just go after the people who are predatory with the loans. It's educating the people to know what to stay away from. There's always two sides, because no matter what, as many resources as the government puts out, there's always going to be people that are smarter and slicker chasing the mighty dollar, which the government is never going to keep up with. So I agree, and it's part of the problem. We always say, well, let's over-regulate. How about we teach the people how to not be in these situations in the first place? So I completely agree. And I do remember Katrina, for me personally. Again, I'm not from the South. I'm a New Yorker, so race is a little different up there. Everybody's just trying to make a dollar. I was probably the only white kid in the whole neighborhood in Queens. Everyone was Korean. That's why I was like, I'm Puerto Rican, I swear to God. But it was two things for me. It was Rodney King first, and then it was Katrina that showed the plight of African Americans, where you saw those things on screen and you couldn't believe it. So being that Katrina was that thing, talk about how that influenced you. That's a pretty tough thing to start on. That's probably a fire drill right there. You're all hands on deck.

The irony is that it gave me a training ground of what to do if I'm ever in that position. It was a catastrophic moment. And I think society learned that, hey, this does not just affect the folks who have been displaced. The resources that you wanted to use for whatever you wanted to use them for now had to be put toward that. So if we can come at it in a collaborative way, learning that it's going to affect us all, then we can be in a better place. And that's for the politicians to figure out. For me, I learned how to use the programs and know where those dollars were going and how they were going to help people get back on their feet. I enjoyed doing that. I actually ran a grant program where people applied for grants to get back on their feet. So I got a chance to sit and talk to them. I actually was responsible for looking at the buildings that were destroyed and then had to get built back up and put back on the market to be sold. I evaluated them. I looked at whether they had running water, et cetera, et cetera. But I also saw what it could be for families who wanted to live in a place like that. So it gave me hope to say, if I was ever in a position to help them make a difference, I'll do that. And just to fast forward, when I got appointed at SBA, the first week on the job we had bad tornadoes, and the ice storms and all that hit. I was sent to Alabama and Mississippi to help the displaced folks get back on their feet. I was like, again, how ordained an opportunity was this? But I learned how to do it because I first got hit with it as an intern coming into the federal government during the Bush administration.

And you learn from adversity, right? In the worst case scenarios, that's where you always learn. That's why people shouldn't run away from these things. The worst you can do is make the same mistake again. So I absolutely think that it's the biggest part of life you can learn from. And there's probably no bigger dumpster fire than the government, because there's so much out of your control, right? For what it's worth, the levees broke, right? The levees broke that shouldn't have been there in the first place. So we, as usual, are cleaning up our own mess. As a government, we're supposed to protect people. That's what we decided to put in place. Now we were cleaning up the mess of what we created. That being said, as someone who spends much time in New Orleans, not many places have done such a good job of bouncing back with even more cultural influence, and become more culturally dominant, than New Orleans did. You never hope for these things. But remember, they burned Atlanta to the ground and Atlanta rose from the ashes. Rome burned down a couple of times, and New Orleans did a great job bouncing back. So we covered a lot in just 12 minutes, but when we get back from the break, we're going to talk a little bit more about the Small Business Administration and then get into some of the stuff you're doing now. You've been listening to the Marketing MadMen on Xtra 106.3 and we will be right back.

Now back to the Marketing MadMen on Xtra 106.3 FM.

Welcome back to the Marketing MadMen on Xtra 106.3. I got my boy Cassius Butts here and we covered a lot in round one. So we're gonna start round two with the Small Business Administration. Small business is the lifeblood of this country. Doesn't matter what state you're in, what political leanings you have, everyone says it, because most people have the access to be part of a small business, right? They don't start out like, I wanna start a billion dollar corporation. It just doesn't work that way. You start everything as a small business. So my question is, talk about the role that the SBA plays in that. Talk about how in God's name you were the first African-American to be appointed to that role, because this was recently in the scheme of life, and I don't know how that's even possible. And then talk about how you were able to maximize lending for small business, because you have that pedigree in capital, and I think it's misunderstood. At the same time, it is so essential to grow and to scale, and it's what takes small business to medium size and medium size to large. So I asked you a lot of questions. Let's start first with the role of the SBA in this country.

Certainly. Well, over 99.4% of our economy runs off of small business. So what does that mean? When you see a Walmart, you see a Target, you see these big box stores, Amazon, you see the big name, but within those stores are thousands of small businesses that make things, whether it's the shirts we wear, the shoes, et cetera.

Those are the people that come in and clean when they shut the doors, the security guards that watch it. In everything we do, there is small business.

Everything we do is small business, and that gets overlooked a lot. And so what the SBA does is help folks who are looking to start or grow their business get access to capital. Simplest put, it's just that. At one point in time, SBA used to actually disburse the loans to small businesses. Now they partner with financial institutions. They have their products inside those organizations. And when I came into SBA, Nick, I think it was really needed. What I mean by that, we had just come out of the housing economy, the despair that we went through going into 2007, 2008, 2009, and the change of administration when Barack Obama came into play. And it was interesting. I was trying to figure out what area I really wanted to go into, because I was at HUD, and I said, do I want to stay in the government? Do I want to leave? And I met Barack Obama at that time. He came to Atlanta. You got a funny name like me. And it was kind of cool. He said, if there's ever an opportunity to support me like you support me. I'll never forget that. That really happened. And I wasn't chasing anything. I just was like, hey, this is pretty cool.

I met Obama when Hillary Clinton was running. Don't ask me how, but I was working on her campaign in Nevada, because Jimmy Carter's son was running for Senate in that state, and somehow I got pulled into the Democratic Party. I was with Hillary Clinton and I met Barack Obama that same day, with President Carter. And Obama wasn't to the point where he had even passed Clinton yet. And I met him and I was like, whoa, dude. You mentioned Manilow, and a little Al Green, just the way he was talking. I was like, whoa, this is a different kind of dude. There was a little cadence. I got to meet Bill Clinton also, and I felt a little bit of that same charisma, like he really cared. I don't know if he really did, but he was able to make you think he did, and that's half the battle. So, okay, you spent time at SBA. First off, again, was it because of Obama that you were the first Black guy put in that role? Because it's crazy, man. There have been a lot of African-American owned businesses in this country. How was that the first time?

I didn't know it when I was appointed. The irony: I went to Washington, and I was thinking this is the final interview. There were a lot of people who were up for the role, and there were some folks who really looked out for me to get there. I got to Washington, and they're reading over my stuff. They're like, so your grandfather ran for mayor in 1980, and he was a Republican. I was like, well, I guess I don't have this job. I said, yeah, that's true. They said, you're exactly who we want. Someone who can work across party lines and get stuff done.

Oh, the world is on fire. Something just happened. Crossing party lines. This must have been 1964.

Wow. So I was like, the only line I know is the green one. That's the only one I'm familiar with and interested in. Let's make some great things happen. But in all seriousness, for me, it's because I've always had that mindset that government has to work for us, not against us. I wanted to be the one that made a difference, that didn't get involved in the minutiae.

Yeah.

And just got stuck.

And that role you were in allowed you to do that, because you were at the street level, helping people directly. And most people don't understand, the money has already been allocated. It just needs to be appropriated. It's there. We have the money. It's not pulling from our pockets. We already allocated it in previous years. So it's appropriating the money now. Everyone thinks, oh, that's coming out of my pocket. No, that came out of your pocket 2 years ago, usually.

Even better, yeah, it came out of your pocket at tax time. My stump speech used to be, listen, I don't look at left or right or red or blue. I look at green. Access to capital is what runs our economy. We have a program in place. At the SBDCs, the small business development centers, you can get one-on-one confidential counseling at no cost. And for all your listeners right now, you can do that today. I don't care where you are, I don't care what party you're in, and you pay for it through your taxes. Take advantage.

That being said, I understand sometimes why people look at the government and say that's not possible. You can't get a hold of the IRS. They want your money, but somehow it's impossible to get a hold of a person. So sometimes when you say those things, it's off-putting to people. It's like, wait a second, I can't even get a hold of somebody when they're trying to come get money from me. How would I go do this? So I see it, but that's a good thing. Use those resources, especially to scale. Again, everybody can have a great idea. You can run a great business, but when it's time to scale, capital is necessary, pointers are necessary. You go to a new market, you want to hire more employees. All these things are really hard. So I think that's a good point. Last, what were you able to do so well to get so much money into people's hands?

I just went back to the process that I had many moons ago, and that's really engaging the community. As you know, you do what you do and you're very successful at it. Know your audience. What I know is that people want results. They want the capital. They want to know how to get it. They want to know how to scale. And so I put together these initiatives to have strategic alliances with organizations such as the Florida Hispanic Chamber of Commerce, the Asian American Pacific Islander Initiative, the Georgia Minority Supplier Development Council. I can go on.

Yeah.

I did almost a hundred strategic community engagement relationships. And what that did was all the members of those organizations got to learn more and more about SBA. And that's how we were able to scale. I mean, we actually backed over $30 billion.

And I would venture to guess that if you are part of something like the Minority Supplier Development Council, you're already showing the initiative to be part of them, which means your success rate is probably higher anyway, because you've already shown the initiative. And I think one of the things that people get wrong when they're looking to start businesses: we don't need more $100 billion businesses. We need mom and pop shops that care and will go do things the right way. People always want to start the big thing. Wait a second, there are plenty. We need more people to go and clean up these shopping centers, and security guards, and plumbers. We need so many more of these things. We need more plumbing businesses. Because ultimately, when there's not, competition is out and things get more expensive for consumers. So we don't always have to start these billion dollar ideas. Humble beginnings usually get you far. And in today's day and age, you know what we need? Plumbers, electricians. Those prices have gone through the roof, because everyone sent their kids to college and everybody is coming home with a liberal arts degree. And what does that do for you?

Not a whole lot. What you're passionate about is what you really should invest your time and your attention into. And I didn't know that I was the first African American in this role until a gentleman who owns the world's most profitable Popeyes told me. He said, you're the first African American in this role. I said, no, I had no clue. My mentor at that time was his best friend, Maynard Jackson. I had no clue. All I knew is that I was there to do the job, do it well and leave things better than I found them.

That's all you can ask for, brother. So we've talked about Governor Kemp before. Let's go to the state level now. As a Yankee coming down here, I've been here pretty much only during his term, and I've had the chance to meet him a couple of times. He catches you off guard. The aloofness that he has is an act that he puts on to lull you in, but he's much sharper and he cares much more than I think he gets credit for. And I think it's starting to come into the public eye. I think when he believes in something, he stands by it. I think that he's strong-willed in the good way. And I think when he talks about his family, he truly cares about his family and they influence his decisions. So that's just my apolitical 30,000 foot view of him. You got the chance to work with him. Tell me, one, some things you were proud of that you worked with him on, and two, what you learned about him through the process.

I'd definitely say, Nick, the first thing about Governor Kemp is he gives a lot of credit not just to his supporters, but really to his wife, Marty. Marty Kemp has been really the backbone of everything that Governor Kemp does. And so you will very rarely ever see Governor Kemp without Marty, not in front, not in back, but by his side. So with that being said, they typically have an approach of saying, hey, what can we do that's best for Georgia? During the pandemic, perfect example, there were a lot of folks who were saying, hey, we need to keep businesses closed, the pandemic's happening. Governor Kemp's like, no, we need to keep businesses open, because a lot of these businesses, whether they're Black or brown, small, women-owned, et cetera, need to be open. It's no coincidence that ten years in a row Georgia is number one in the union to do business, because Governor Kemp had that foresight. No matter what you think about it, you can't take that from him. So when you say one of the things that most people don't see coming: what you see is what you get. He's very genuine. When you see him on television, he's the same way when the cameras are not on. For me, I got a chance to get to know him better through my buddy Dallas Smith, who introduced us and said, hey, I think you can do some fantastic things for us. Can you come up with a plan for small and minority business for the state of Georgia? When he got elected, he asked me to do it, and I had to come up with a plan. And whenever someone asks you to come up with a plan, you deliver. Next thing you know, Governor Kemp created a role called the supplier diversity manager for the state of Georgia. It had never been in place before, but he created it. That doesn't get the headlines, but beyond the politics that people think about, there's always going to be a conscious decision he makes about how this is going to affect not just the folks inside 285, but folks outside.

But also laying a foundation for the future, which most politicians don't do. They want the right now. They don't think about the future. That is a future looking goal, even after his term, that is going to have impact. So I think that's really important. I also think your ground level approach is what differentiates you, right? There's two kinds of people in life, and it's really hard to be both. One's really good at 30,000 foot and one's really good at the execution. Getting it from 30,000 foot to being executed is really hard to do. It sounds like the diverse experience you have allowed you to write plans, but not just plans that were over people's heads. Plans that were easy to execute, that you could follow. And that's probably been an important thing in your career, I have to imagine, because that's not an easy skill set to have.

It's been something I take a lot of pride in, but one thing I'm familiar with, Nick, is I didn't do it or get here by myself. And I was fortunate to be appointed chairman of Fort McPherson by Governor Kemp, where we sold the property to Tyler Perry and his company. And you figure Tyler Perry, one of the most notable African-Americans in this world, and we were able to sell that property for him to flourish. That's not by coincidence. That was very specific, because he said, this is what I want to do. Great. I'm just glad to be in a position to help lead that effort.

And everybody won. That doesn't always happen. Everybody won. The state won, the community won.

Exactly. I'm also proud to be on the board of the Georgia Department of Economic Development. We get to see all the businesses that come into the state. And I was most recently appointed to the Georgia Tourism Foundation.

When do you sleep?

I'll sleep when I'm dead. We got work to do, man.

That's a lot of appointments, man.

But you know what? When you're making the difference and when you're helping to change the trajectory of someone else's life, I thrive off of it. Knowing that you're changing someone's livelihood, literally, by helping them with access to capital or opportunity or resources that they may not have known about. No matter how educated you are, some people just don't know.

Isn't it a shame we're in a world like that. I've seen a great graphic, I'm sure you've seen it. It's the iceberg, and the tip of the iceberg is social media, and it's like, this is what people see. And then you go under and it's all the struggle and all the strife and all the no's and all the rejection, and it's all underwater. But they put the little tip of the iceberg out for everybody to see. That's why I joke all the time. You know that guy that tells you he wins $1,000,000 whenever he gambles? He doesn't tell you when he loses the 2 million the other times he goes gambling, right? This is how it works. So let's talk a little bit about Global Leader Group. I've had a chance to do some business with you guys and spend some time with you guys. Giving capital is one thing. Talk about the role of the company. Talk about why it's different than traditional banks or private equity or things like that. Just talk about how the company operates, because again, I think that'll set us up well for the book and then the rest of the stuff you're doing.

Certainly. At Global Leader Group, we call ourselves kind of like a group of Avengers. We have folks who actually served in worldwide leadership roles at HSBC, including our CEO. Our CEO was a national executive with HSBC as well. We have folks out of Canada, Toronto, Asia, the UK, and here in the States, obviously. And we have divisions. One is leading efforts around consulting, our learning division. We have an effort that is specific to capital, which is the part that I lead. And also search, where we're looking for executives to fill executive roles. And so, like I said, we're a group of Avengers that use our skill set, our relationships and resources to help other businesses and other people to scale. That's the bottom line. It's really not that confusing or complex. It really is just that simple. And so I'm glad to be there. I've been there for three years now as an equity partner within our capital division. But the proud part about it is when you see people get the opportunity to scale, when they get the opportunity to get a contract in the business, you say, hey, I was part of that. I was involved in that.

Local to regional, you need resources, but it's not super hard, right? National to multinational is incredibly hard, which is what I was thinking immediately when you brought up all the different places you guys are. Doing business in London is very different than the US, and even Canada, right across the border with every treaty we have, it's very different doing business there. So that's why you've developed a group of global people, because if you want to scale to the next level, you're not going to be able to just wake up one day and be like, you know what? I'm going to go conquer Asia. It's just not going to happen.

Not going to happen.

Yeah, that's great. So talk about some clients, some success stories, some things you're proud of there. It doesn't have to be naming names, but just some examples of things you're doing there and how you guys market yourselves. Because I have to imagine that elite you're going after, that CMO, that CEO, those big companies, right? They're not looking at Instagram. I have to imagine that's an interesting place. You gotta be at a lot of networking events and speaking events, right?

No, certainly. In fact, we were just talking before we came on, I'm leaving to go to New York to meet with some folks from InsurTech. It's a huge insurance conference taking place in New York, and then they have the second part of that taking place in Vegas in a couple months. And so we're helping a business scale up to get to that next level. We've connected them with a couple of investors who are looking to invest in the company, which is great for them. Again, changing lives. So that's something that's huge. We have another client out in New York who owns several hotels and is looking to refinance one of his hotels here in Georgia. He owns several businesses in South America and in Asia. And so again, helping them with access to capital to refinance part of the business is something we love doing. And of course, last but not least, on the consulting side with our learning division, we help businesses figure out how to do things better and more efficiently. And we do that because we've actually been in those roles. Everyone from our CEO to our COO, these are folks who've lived and worked all over the world, from Switzerland to China to Canada and here, obviously, in the States. And we're just glad to be in a place where we're following our passion, Nick. That's the plug line.

Love it. We're following our passion. And I have to imagine your services become more valuable in the state of the economy we're in, right? When money was free and it was easy to get money, it was pretty easy for everybody to get money, which is why we grew at such a rapid pace, but which is also why we see all this inflation, and it was getting willy-nilly with money. So I have to imagine now that things have tightened, all of a sudden these people that were like, we never need you, are coming back pretty quickly. It's not as easy anymore.

No, it's not. But the great part about it is when we have a relationship with those folks who are making decisions, it makes it a little bit easier.

For sure. And you were there for them when it started. All right. So let's get to it. Exceptional: Being the Exception to the Rule. You wrote a book. You told me right away, it's not like most books. It's a quick read. Sit your butt down and read it.

That's right.

Talk about it. I'm mostly curious, because we probably covered a lot of the content, in what it was like going on the book tour, how you marketed it, how you got it out there. Because one of the things I've noticed, it used to be really hard to write a book. You needed to get publishing deals in advance. Now I know a lot of people. I was actually offered, someone said, hey, you should convert your podcast into a book, I can show you how to do it. And I was like, whoa, I didn't even know I could write coherent sentences. What do you mean, write a book? But talk about how that has changed, because I think it's a lot of insight for people. You went through the process and promoted it. Talk about that.

Yeah, so for me, it was something that I really wanted to do, to be in a position to give back. I just was like, okay, how can I write something that's impactful, that's gonna make a difference in someone else's life? Who Moved My Cheese? came out many years ago. I think it's 113 pages. That book has been reproduced, I think, 120 something times throughout the entire world in like 47 different languages. And so I wanted to write something short, to the point, impactful. It's about 14 chapters on everything from finding your passion, to checking your ego before it checks you, to planting seeds in harvest time, to working as an intern. I could go on, but all of these chapters are things that I experienced or had one-on-one interactions with, whether it was Senator John McCain, whether it was Mayor Kasim Reed, whether it was Barack Obama, George Bush, Condoleezza Rice. I mean, these are all folks who I've actually interacted with and gotten some tools or some lessons from. Dr. Lewis Len is my mentor. He owned a business and still owns it. He's also a board trustee for Clemson University, and also with Truist. And he's the one who said, hey, Cassius, you really need to kind of hone in and just follow the things that you're really passionate about. And so I did that, and I wrote the book. And how it happened, for me, was a little bit unconventional. I pulled out my iPhone, and I sat down, had a little beverage. I said, let me just start thinking about topics I'm gonna talk about. So I wrote out like 10 to 15 titles, and I just started talking about those particular topics and recording myself. And I recorded myself, then I had it transcribed. So there was no ghostwriter, it was me. Probably seeing ghosts at night sometimes, just thinking about the memories.

Right, but you're speaking a language that people understand. You're not talking down to people. You're speaking at eye level, like the conversation we're having now. It's one of the reasons that I won't use headphones when I do this. Because when you have headphones on, you're not talking to a person, you're talking to the machines, and you're not in there. So you with scotch in your hand, I assumed it was scotch, I just think that's what writers drink. But with scotch in your hand, talking is more applicable, it's more palatable, it's more natural, it's more organic. And I have to imagine, even from what I read of it, that connectability is important, especially quickly, because people have to decide if they're going to read that book very quickly. And they don't want someone that's talking down to them. A lot of these business books catch you with the first paragraph, like they care, and then all of a sudden they're talking down to you the rest of the time.

That's right. No, I speak in a way that's like, look, I've been in the same places where you are. And in fact, I'm still in some of those places. I just try to do things consistently to actually get to the next level. I just wanna follow my passion, whatever that is. I wanna do the things that I'm supposed to do in this world. So when I'm gone, I can check all those boxes and say, yeah, I did it. And hopefully somebody else can do the same thing.

Yeah, that's a great way to put it. And I think a lot of times the problem with these books is, hey, you're making $12 an hour now, I can teach you to make a million. It's like, no, you can't. Let's start with getting from $12 an hour to $20 an hour. And then from 20 to 30, right? You're not going to wake up one day and go from McDonald's to CEO. It's not going to happen, especially in the world nowadays. So let's be realistic with the approach, right? Consistency is the number one thing. It's not preached. No one talks about it. Do the same thing. Plan on doing it 200 times before you even think it's worth a damn. You're not going to be good at something right away. And if you are, you should have been good at it a long time ago, because you had some natural talent in you. So that's what I've learned about books, and I've read a lot of them. Some of the classics hold up for a reason. There's really good people, but most people who are writing these really long books, they got 200 people working for them. They got research departments. It's not them speaking. So what was the touring like? Were you on book tours? What were the interactions with people like? Did you meet people that read it and it changed them? Did you hear those stories?

I did, and I'm still doing it. I'm actually going to Orlando, speaking there, doing a fireside chat. I did a fireside chat with JPMorgan a couple weeks ago and really enjoyed that. And I have one coming up with Google. And so for me, when people read it, they're like, hey, what you just said, I can really relate. How did you go through that? I said, look, just take the moment to be vulnerable. People want to talk about success. I talk about my failures.

Yeah.

Most of my book talks about the things I failed in. It talks about when I tripped, when I failed, when I got rejected. But it talks about, hey, surround yourself with mentors and people who can help build you back up. I mean, the first chapter is kind of like bam, in your face. It talks about me backing out of a car the day before I'm graduating from high school, and I hit a little girl. I ran her over. Literally, I thought she was dead. I don't even remember graduating, because I was in such a state of shock. I was like, God, this little girl, I'm going to do whatever I need to do. Unbeknownst to me, like 10 minutes later, she's yelling, screaming. She just had a hairline fracture. She was okay. But for me, it's like, oh, my gosh, this is really a miracle. I've got to do something that's going to be for the betterment of people. And so the first chapter talks about your past.

I mean, that started with vulnerability, if I've ever heard it. Most people just pretend like that never happened. It was a dog. What are you talking about?

It was me. And so to this day, when I look in the rearview mirror, it takes me like two, three minutes to make sure nothing's around me.

Hey, you learn from your mistakes.

I learned from my mistake. And it's Abraham Maslow's hierarchy of needs that I really base it off of. And I base it off of self-actualization. When you find out who you are, what you are, and what you're supposed to do in this life, no matter what you do, no matter what anyone says, follow your passion, screw everybody else. This is what you're supposed to do. And if you do that, you'll feel successful. You will be fulfilled.

I agree with it. When people ask, the two most important things I say are, one, self-awareness and two, situational awareness. You have to know yourself, and you have to know in each situation what the course of action is.

That's right.

It sounds like some James Bond stuff. And I learned it from Archer, actually. But it's situational awareness. That's what differentiates people. All right, so we're going to come back and talk about teaching at Morehouse and giving all this knowledge back. You've been listening to the Marketing MadMen on Xtra 106.3 and we will be right back.

Now back to the Marketing MadMen on Xtra 106.3 FM.

Welcome back to the Marketing MadMen on Xtra 106.3. Cassius Butts and Nick Constantino, we're finishing up our conversation. We covered a lot. We talked books, we talked government, we talked about finding your passion, doing things incrementally, just being habitual and building habits. So let's talk about Morehouse. Now you get to give back. You're an adjunct professor. Talk about what you're teaching. Talk about what your kids are teaching you, because I think probably you went in thinking you were gonna do some teaching, but you learned a thing or two from these students. And look, I think the HBCUs have been brought to the forefront, and the good that they've done. They've been doing good for a long time, man. I went to DC. I was around Howard kids all the time. It was a different world. I won't tell you about the time I went to Howard Homecoming, but it did happen. That was another day I was Puerto Rican, by the way. But talk a little bit about teaching, and with the class you're teaching, what you get from these kids.

Yeah, let me tell you, Nick. First and foremost, I'm just glad to be in a position to teach. My grandmother was an educator. She taught at Temple and Notre Dame and Xavier. My brother taught at the University of Northern Iowa, and so on. So I come from that place where we just enjoy giving back. I teach leadership and professional development at Morehouse. I only have time to teach one class, but I enjoy it so much. First of all, the class is written off of the premise of my book, Exceptional.

Oh, cool.

So we get to learn the practical situations of the book. I spend a lot of time bringing CEOs and executives into the room for them to get real live one-on-one experiences and hear about what's really going on out there. And I think they really, really do enjoy that. But for me, I laugh, because in one of our last discussions, I'm like, okay, tell me what's going on with Drake and what's going on with K. Dot. Tell me what's going on. They said, oh, you don't know, Professor Butts? Let me tell you. This is how it started. So they're telling me everything, and they know it. And so we actually did a whole segment of class talking about how you can be good at one thing and someone else can be good at it too. What are you going to use your talent for? Are you going to use it to tear down? Or are you going to use it to scale up? And so the conversations that come out of those are applicable to business.

Oh my goodness gracious, I mean, that is the rest of your life. You have competitors. You're going to have competitors that are going to be better than you, that are going to disappear, that are going to come in. And in general, a rising tide lifts all ships, especially when you're in industries that are on the downfall. And no offense, hip hop's big time on the downfall and has been for a long time, just as an art form and an industry. We'll save that for another podcast. But yeah, I think that's great. It's really applicable, because that's adversity. What if someone's coming at you? What are you going to do? What's your response going to be? There's only two ways to handle it, right? You're going to go in and fight back harder, or you're going to let it blow by you. There's no real other way. So again, that's applicable.

It's applicable, but I'll push back just a little bit. I think hip hop has not necessarily gone down. I think it's evolving. Because when you take hip hop to the point where it becomes an art, that's when you can see someone like Kendrick Lamar, who actually won a Pulitzer Prize for his work as a hip hop artist.

He's one of the last good ones. I'll leave it at that. I'm the New Yorker from the 90s that was born in Queens, who spent a lot of time listening to the good ones. He is one of the good ones. I'll take him, I'll take some J. Cole right now. I'm not really happy with the rest of them, if I'm being honest. But anyway, another conversation for another time.

Andre 3000, you can't fault him.

Yeah, you could. He just made his flute record, and I was stupid enough to listen to it, and it was fun for the first six minutes, and then I realized I was listening to a pan flute.

So to your point, that's what the class is about, leadership and professional development. And we don't talk about just being at ABC company, IBM, whatever you do when you come in. No, we talk about what you're going to do when you're in real life situations. How are you gonna use your integrity? How are you gonna use transparency? How are you gonna use your leadership skills to actually get through a situation? I was in that situation most recently. We just celebrated my 30 year reunion at Morehouse. I'm glad to serve as an advisor to the Department of Business and Economics at Morehouse as well. And so it was our 30-year anniversary, and it was like, okay, what are we going to do? We're known as a legendary class, '94. That's not a term I came up with, it's just something that was out there. But my point is that we are in a position where we give back. Our class is giving back more money than any other class in the history of Morehouse College, because we want other people to have the same experiences that we had. So I try to teach the students, hey, when you get out there, don't forget to reach back. That's just the bottom line. It's really just that simple.

Yeah, and you're talking about a very strong community-based organization, HBCUs as a whole. The 90s were a very different time than now for them. They were not looked at the same way they are now. I think people have finally acknowledged how important they are to the African-American community, how big of a point it is. You don't meet many people that went to an HBCU that don't wear that like a big, bright, flamboyant shirt that they're so proud of. And I think that is something that we've just started to lean into. That's incredibly important. I think it's important for anybody, right? You go to any kind of school or any organization, your church. Most people aren't at church necessarily for the religion. They're there for the community. And that's why they're so proud of that community. So I think it's a differentiator, right? There's a study done, and it's not that religious people do better in life, but because they're always around a community and a support network, they tend to do better. They try to falsely correlate it and say it's because they believe in God. No, it's because they're always around a community. So that community that came from '94 at Morehouse probably has led a lot of the influence in what you've been able to do. And you could trace it back to 1994 in that instance. So now you're in a position to put people in that same place, to hopefully give more money, more time, more effort back to the school and keep perpetually growing.

That's right. I mean, you hit it right. And now I'm going to make sure that you are going to be one of our guest speakers, just because of that monologue. They would love that. And they would not care where you came from, what you look like. They'd love that you're there, because you're very straight. You're very direct in your approach. And that's what they need. They need real life experiences. So again, for me, that's been something I really enjoy. I also serve as vice chairman of the board of Morris Brown College, which is now in a position where they're going to have over 400 students in the fall. They're back on their feet. There's a lot of great things taking place there. And so yeah, that's what the media doesn't always show.

I'd rather hear from you what's going on at the street level. I don't think the media is going to tell you everything. The propensity of people is to always amplify the negative. It's an actual physiological response. I'm not gonna hold it against them. So tell me this. What do you think can be done to help fix the education system? Here's what I do know, right? We're giving away too many liberal arts degrees. We're giving too many degrees to people that are not applicable to the skill set that is required to succeed. And in the simplest form, we are building sheep. We're not building entrepreneurs. We're not building small business owners. We're building people who believe they should show up for 40 hours, and if they're lucky, maybe they work 20, and complain about how hard they're working even though they're doing nothing. How do we fix the education system so the next generation takes the mantle? Because trending downward, you start to see some kinks in the armor as a country.

Right. The best part about the educational system that I think students can get out of it is really the networking, and knowing other students who are just as competitive as they are. Being in a place with that competition. I learned the same back when I was in graduate school: competition doesn't create character. It reveals it. And so when you're in a position where you're being competitive against someone else, now what are you gonna do? Okay, you beat this person, you got a higher grade, you got a bigger internship. Now what? Are you gonna pave the way for someone else? Or are you just gonna say, oh, I got you?

Yeah, or did you just motivate that person that you just passed to be better than you? Because it doesn't always work that way. You can't rest on your laurels. If you're not consistently trying to be better, that's the difference. Luka Doncic, let's just throw it out there. That dude should not be the best player in the NBA. There's no way. He doesn't even look like he could run a 40 in under 6 seconds. But he is, and why? Because someone told him he couldn't. And some kid beat him when he was 16, and he just kept trying to get better. So I agree with you. I think competition is huge, but you also got to know how to nurture competition and not make it obnoxious. Because there are people who are obnoxious with it too.

Well, what you just gave was the solution for how we actually fix the education system. Same thing we talked about with hip hop. You evolve it. You evolve education to having more real hands-on approaches, real live internships, real hands-on opportunities for students to get real life experiences, and then take that back to the classroom and say, this is what I've learned, so the rest of your peers can learn. Professors like myself can say, glad to see you do that. I can talk about more real life situations. And everyone wins. That's just about it.

Love it. And again, you're not going anti-education, right? You're saying that we need more practical application to prepare these kids for the life that they're going to enter. When I went to college, I went to the University of Maryland, to the R.H. Smith School of Business. This was a top 15 business school in the country. I got a lot of that, but I didn't get as much as I wanted. You know what I got a lot of? How to calculate the net present value of a stock. Do you think I needed to do 30 pages on net present value? Do you think they could have thought in 2004 that AI was going to do all this work for me? You would have thought they should have, because I wasted a lot. But you know what? I was in a fraternity. I learned business. I was around a lot of people. I chased a lot of women. I did a lot of things that taught me a lot in life. So I will take that for what it is. I enjoyed our time together. We are right on time to end this one. You've been listening to the Marketing MadMen on Xtra 106.3. Thank you, Cassius. I appreciate it, brother.

Glad to be here.